[hz3gzy]

I talk to a wine-maker at a commercial winery and he told me when he adds acid before fermentation he uses Tartaric acid but if he needs to make adjustments after fermentation or while it is aging he always uses a Acid Blend. He says Acid blend is softer. I was told that acid blend has Malolactic Acid in it as well as Citric Acid. How can it be softer?

Can anybody share their knowledge on this one?

[toomuchwine]

He's probably right about it being softer. I use tartaric until cold stabilization, because I get some back. Where I live its usually more about pH than acidity. In fact we often have too much acidity.

[shoelesst]

Acid blend has tartaric, malic and citric acid. There is no such acid as malolactic acid. Malolactic refers to the process of converting malic acid to lactic acid.
Citric acid is almost never recommended. A post fermentation addition of tartaric acid at 1 gram/liter is a good start for a low acid wine, post fermentation.

[hz3gzy]

Acid blend has tartaric, malic and citric acid. There is no such acid as malolactic acid. Malolactic refers to the process of converting malic acid to lactic acid.
Citric acid is almost never recommended. A post fermentation addition of tartaric acid at 1 gram/liter is a good start for a low acid wine, post fermentation.

Why use the harsher tartaric when you can use a softer malic?

[NorthernWiner]

I've never heard of commercial winemakers adding acid blend to finished red wine. In fact, I could be wrong (and often am), but I don't believe they legally are allowed to.

From a stability perspective, acid blend is not safe to add to wines that have gone through MLF. As I understand it, if there is lactic acid bacteria present in the wine, they will first consume the l-malic acid (only half of the malic in acid blend is l-malic, the other half is d-malic, which is not metabolized by LAB). Once there is no more l-malic available, they then go after citric acid. One of the byproducts of citric acid metabolization is volatile acidity (VA)... which is a bad thing. So the only safe acid for additions is tartaric.

That being said, I've added small amounts of citric acid to brighten up finished white wines. Citric seems to add a "freshness" that you don't get from tartaric or malic.

Steve

[lundblad]

Lactic acid (what malic gets turned into by ML) is softer. Malic acid is more harsh than Tartaric.

Citric acid has the advantage that it doesn't 'harden' the wine like tartaric does and isn't as harsh as malic. But microbes can consume Citric (esp LAB bacteria) so some folks don't add citric unless they're sterile filtering (some folks add citric without sterile filtering tho....so there's no agreement on this).

[toomuchwine]

I like to add ascorbic just before bottling to 'freshen' whites. It seems to help SO2 as well.

[scorch]

Citric acid is almost never recommended. A post fermentation addition of tartaric acid at 1 gram/liter is a good start for a low acid wine, post fermentation.

Actually that is not really true. Citric acid is often recommended and used, especially for post-MLF acid adjustments. I think if you tried it you would see why. Especially if your acid adjustment is substantial, tartaric can be perceived as harsh or artificial. Especially for white wines, I could also see using acid blend depending on the style you were going after. There is a theoretical concern about adding citric acid before MLF, but other than that it is a perfectly valid choice.

[shoelesst]

Actually that is not really true. Citric acid is often recommended and used,

I would hardly say "often recommended", especially for reds. I think the poster is confusing lactic and malic acids.

[MSC'S-CELLAR]

I would hardly say "often recommended", especially for reds. I think the poster is confusing lactic and malic acids.

I believe the aussies add ascorbic acid to their reds.

[lundblad]

Actually that is not really true. Citric acid is often recommended and used, especially for post-MLF acid adjustments. I think if you tried it you would see why. Especially if your acid adjustment is substantial, tartaric can be perceived as harsh or artificial. Especially for white wines, I could also see using acid blend depending on the style you were going after. There is a theoretical concern about adding citric acid before MLF, but other than that it is a perfectly valid choice.

The concern about adding citric acid before MLF is complete is more than theoretical.....ML Bacteria consume citric acid and produce acetic acid (i.e. VA). If you use citric, don't add it until after you've sulfured post ML.

Tartaric acid is by far the most used acid for additions to juice/wine. One reason is that it's best to have the majority of acid additions complete before fermentation starts. The fermentation reactions/changes differ depending on the Ph of your wine. So early additions get you a more integrated palate.

You can use citric after ML is complete...but as I mentioned earlier, there's some concern that the citric will get converted into acetic in the bottle.

[shoelesst]

I believe the aussies add ascorbic acid to their reds.

Ascorbic acid is added as an anti-oxident, not to raise the acid levels as we would with tartaric acid or acid blends.

[MSC'S-CELLAR]

Ascorbic acid is added as an anti-oxident, not to raise the acid levels as we would with tartaric acid or acid blends.

Okay can you explain the difference between citric and ascorbic acid?

[NorthernWiner]

Okay can you explain the difference between citric and ascorbic acid?

Ascorbic acid is vitamin C. It's a fairly potent anitoxidant, but very mild as far as acids go. MSC, I know you like to cook, so here's a tip: if you ever want to keep guacamole from turning brown just mix in a teaspoon or two of ascorbic acid. It'll stay bright green for days.

Citric acid is the primary acid found in.... well, citrus fruits.

Steve

[MSC'S-CELLAR]

Ascorbic acid is vitamin C. It's a fairly potent anitoxidant, but very mild as far as acids go. MSC, I know you like to cook, so here's a tip: if you ever want to keep guacamole from turning brown just mix in a teaspoon or two of ascorbic acid. It'll stay bright green for days.

Citric acid is the primary acid found in.... well, citrus fruits.

Steve

Thanks for the tip, kind of the same as using lemon or lime. I still however am confused, I thought citric and ascorbic were the same or at least similar. Citric acid has vitamin C, doesn't it? Is ascorbic acid found in citric acid? Does ascorbic acid turn into acetic acid like citric does?