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#1 BanksHinshaw

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 05:00 AM

Has anyone had experience with the Scott Henry trellis system? In particular, I am interested in the use of moveable wires with any trellis system. There is lots of information about the use of moveable wires available, but I have not found an explanation of exactly how the wires are attached to the posts so that it is possible to move them and then lock them in place. smileyhelp.gif
Banks Hinshaw
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#2 bluestreak

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 10:51 AM

If you go to orchard valley supply and look at the metal line posts they stock hit the zoom button you can see notches in the outside edges of the posts which allow for changing your catch wire heights.Thats one option hopefully others will offer up more suggestions. http://www.orchardvalleysupply.com

Edited by bluestreak, 08 January 2006 - 10:54 AM.


#3 abkennedy

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 11:18 AM

Spec Trellising http://www.spectrellising.com has a really good FAQ about posts and wire, also. A grower near me, Larry Kehoe, uses the Smart-Dyson Ballerina variation of Scott-Henry with great success.

In our vineyard, we are also looking at using SDB, since terrain mandates East-West orientation of rows... Hopefully, the ballerina "skirts" will get more sun exposure throughout the day...
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#4 BanksHinshaw

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 02:06 PM

QUOTE (abkennedy @ Jan 8 2006, 01:50 PM)
Spec Trellising  has a really good FAQ about posts and wire, also....  In our vineyard, we are also looking at using SDB, since terrain mandates East-West orientation of rows... 



Thanks for the reference, AB. I'll check it out. I'm planning to use all wooden posts if I can.

My terrain, which is a steep south-facing slope, essentially mandates east-west rows, but I have no intention of following this mandate. I'm planting north-south, not planning on using machinery (it's *only* about a half-acre), and will probably slip and fall a thousand times more than I have already before it's all over. Ah well. I'm the stubborn type. A power winch and a big-wheeled cart will get things up the hill when I can't.

Banks
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Bringing Georges Brassens to America at http://www.brassens.org

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One-half so precious as the stuff they sell?
.....................The Rubiayat of Omar Khayyam

#5 BanksHinshaw

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 02:13 PM

QUOTE (bluestreak @ Jan 8 2006, 01:23 PM)
you can see notches in the outside edges of the posts which allow for changing your catch wire heights



Thanks for the reference. I want to use wooden line posts but I can probably adopt this hook idea to wood. Perhaps I can even find a hook specifically designed for that purpose. I envision one that could be bored straight through the post with a hook on each end. A snap-hook would be ideal.

I want to try "non-ferrous wire" for the supports and only use steel for the fruiting wires. It should be more gentle to handle and if it doesn't work out, I can always switch to steel.

Thanks for your reply.

Banks
Banks Hinshaw
Bringing Georges Brassens to America at http://www.brassens.org

I wonder what the vintners buy,
One-half so precious as the stuff they sell?
.....................The Rubiayat of Omar Khayyam

#6 primitivo

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 07:17 AM

I prefer to use wood posts with scott henry, and I like the two cordon wires to be on opposite sides of the post, that way you get a bit more space between the cordons.

Place the bottom cordon, if possible on the leeward side of the post, that way you will find it easier to role the cordon over.

There are many ways of securing the wires, try this


http://www.spectrell...clips/index.php

These plastic clips work very well. The beauty of installing the wooden trellis is that you can put your clips exactly where you want them. I have used both the staple and the plastic, when doing big areas I prefer the staple, small the plastic.

Getting the wire in the slot, when using steel posts, when lifting your wires can be difficult, and you will be moving wires up and down a lot

Think seriously about scott henry though, the timing nees to be very good to get it right. And erect varieties such as cab, sauv. tend not to work as well, for me anyway


cheers

#7 BanksHinshaw

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Posted 25 March 2006 - 04:41 PM

QUOTE (primitivo @ Mar 24 2006, 09:49 AM)
And erect varieties such as cab, sauv. tend not to work as well, for me anyway



Thanks for the information. Have you tried Pinot Noir on a Scott Henry? I don't know how much of a humidity problem I'm going to encounter on my new steep SW hillside site, but since the variety is so sensitive, I feel like I ought to give it the best chance possible, and Scott Henry seems from what I've read to meet that qualification.

smileytoast.gif

Banks
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Bringing Georges Brassens to America at http://www.brassens.org

I wonder what the vintners buy,
One-half so precious as the stuff they sell?
.....................The Rubiayat of Omar Khayyam

#8 FJL

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Posted 25 March 2006 - 06:19 PM

Banks,
We are going to be using wooden posts in our vineyard (10 acres) and we will be using J nails to make attachment points for our moveable trellis wires. We plan to use a VSP system. We will have a drip irrigation wire, a cordon wire and three sets of moveable catch wires.
A winery north of us in Oregon (Abacela Winery) is converting most of their trellis over to VSP from Scott-Henry due to the amoun of labor required to maintain it. The assistant winemaker thare is named Kiley Evans, and he hates the SH system.
By the way, the SH system was developed at Henry Estate in the Umpqua Valley in Oregon. you might try contacting them to see if there is any info they could give you.
Fred

#9 primitivo

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Posted 28 March 2006 - 02:35 AM

If I was growing pinot, to make wine, not sell the fruit, I would go with VSP. Scott Henry is tricky to get right in my experiance. What sort of soil do you have


Cheers

#10 BanksHinshaw

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Posted 28 March 2006 - 04:28 AM

QUOTE (primitivo @ Mar 28 2006, 05:07 AM)
What sort of soil do you have?


The soil analyses described it as "mineral" and recommended only the addition of lime. The topsoil on the slope is surprisingly deep (9-12"), friable, very well drained, and non-compacting. There are few rocks. I am no geologist, but I would describe it as probably weathered ochre rock. There is little organic matter in it below the top inch. The process of clearing the slope will mix it somewhat with the slightly heavier subsoil, which is otherwise similar stuff except it has more stone in it.

QUOTE (primitivo @ Mar 28 2006, 05:07 AM)
If I was growing pinot, to make wine, not sell the fruit, I would go with VSP. Scott Henry is tricky to get right in my experience.


I have no experience in these matters, but the reason I was considering SH was the fear expressed so frequently about Pinot Noir of bunch rot. The summer relative humidity is always high here, although it is much higher in the valleys than on the slopes. We only get about 6 days above 90 and the annual rainfall is high: 55" last year, 45" the year before. Another reason I was thinking SH was that the size I plan -1000 vines at most- is somewhat more easily micromanaged that a large spread. Do you think VSP would do as much as SH to keep the effects of the humidity at a minimum?

Thanks for all the valuable input.

smileytoast.gif

Banks
Banks Hinshaw
Bringing Georges Brassens to America at http://www.brassens.org

I wonder what the vintners buy,
One-half so precious as the stuff they sell?
.....................The Rubiayat of Omar Khayyam

#11 primitivo

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Posted 28 March 2006 - 05:15 AM

Banks,
I would use SH if I thought there was potential for a high degree of vigour. An easy rule of thumb is if the block is a good pasture block, ie does it grow lots of grass. If so I would consider SH.

However, for ease of management I would go with VSP. THe degree of disease incidence will be much the same between trellising types. ANd yes pinot is prone to rots, but a good disease programme will control it. Just make sure there is some light on the bunches, and the fruit is not congested

cheers
Sean

#12 D'Augustine Vineyard

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 09:16 AM

I've dug this thread up because I want to share how I solved the moveable wire problem. I could not, for the life of me, find a moveable wire that made sense for our vineyard - but now I have. This is a makeshift solution but it worked for me!

(We set up a Scott Henry trellis for our 50 syrah vines to maximize the growing area and because we have vigor issues).

I use that orange weed wacking line. I have to replace it every two years but it's cheap and easy to do. I just put the line through a small bungee cord hook and tie a knot in it and hook the line back on itself around the post. If I need to tighten it I just tie a knot a little further down the line.

At first I was concerned that because the line is a little sharp on the corners it might cut into the vines too, but I've had zero problem with that. Thanks to Practical Winery and Vineyard I also found a new technique for starting the shoots moving in downward direction. I used this technique this year and it works like a charm:

When the shoots have reached the length that you'd first start to brush them down with the moveable wire, go through the vineyard and "crack" the shoots. I've found the best way to do this is to take the shoot and hold the two nodes closes to the trunk (but one up from the trunk) and twist them in opposite directions until you hear a "crack." When you let go you'll see that the shoot becomes more susceptible to gravity and will start to sink downward. I did this before I brushed my shoots down and I had zero breakage this year and the "cracking" doesn't seem to harm the shoots at all. In previous years I always had some shoots break off when it came to the brushing down stage. (Please note: as I write this it's likely too late in the season to try this technique as canes/shoots are now reaching the maturation stage - but try it next year - it's great).

I'll try and find the PWV issue date that describes this technique better and if anyone would like to see a picture of the moveable wire bungee cord hook connection I can grab a photo of that too.

Heather
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#13 Al F

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 09:49 AM

Thank you for sharing the 'cracking technique. I have set up my vines for the SH system as well....I do have a question for you...did you find any disease issues or sap run issues after you did the cracking? Thank you - AL
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#14 D'Augustine Vineyard

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 10:15 AM

QUOTE (Al F @ Jul 11 2007, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thank you for sharing the 'cracking technique. I have set up my vines for the SH system as well....I do have a question for you...did you find any disease issues or sap run issues after you did the cracking? Thank you - AL


Hi Al,

Nope - none at all. You do it fairly early when the shoots still have some flexibility in them. The "cracking" sound comes from inside the shoot - you don't see any damage on the outside of the shoot at all. It seems to just break the stiffness of the column inside the shoot (there's a botanical term for this column that escapes me at the moment) and it loses its rigidity at the cracking point which allows it to fall downward. The only time I saw some actual splitting on the outside of the shoot is when I did it late (some straggler shoots) and had to manually pull the shoots down and tie them on the moveable wire because it grew after I swept most of the shoots down. All the fruit from these shoots looks great and I'll do this every year from now on. I had much less damage with this approach (virtually no damage at all).
Heather


#15 D'Augustine Vineyard

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 10:31 AM

Oops and just remembered one more thing...

Another thing I've found I can do when using the cracking technique is rather than brushing the vines down, I can also (after cracking) just set my moveable wire in place and tie the shoots to the wire. I do this sometimes when I don't have the extra hands I'd need to do the brushing (you really need two people). Once you crack the shoots they bend pretty easily and you can just tie them if it turns out to be easier.
Heather





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