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101-14 Or 3309?


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#1 Rickydhood

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 05:31 PM

I'm going to buy a few vines from Double A for spring (Merlot and Cabernet Sav). I sent them an email inquiring about the difference in these two rootstock (101-14 & 3309). The link they provided indicated one difference was the vegetative cycle, one short and one medium. I have 178 freeze-free days here, average last freeze April 25 first freeze October 22. About 3450 growing degree days. Opinions on which to buy? You'd think with all the research I've been doing on this that I was going to plant 3,000 vines. I've got room for maybe a dozen.

#2 farmerralph

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 09:33 PM

The "vegetative cycle" refers to the ability of a rootstock to advance the ripening (ripens earlier) and both of these will do that, the 101-14 more than the 3309. You probably don't need that, but no harm done either. Both are high vigor rootstock, 3309 slightly more. One major difference is the soils they like to grow in: 101-14 is fine with moist clay soils but the 3309 needs a deep well drained location, though both are rated OK with "wet feet". 3309 has a lower tolerance for limestone.

Ralph

#3 Rickydhood

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 11:40 PM

Ralph,

Perfect, thank you. My soil has a fair amount of clay, but the climate is very dry, so wet feet shouldn't be an issue. I may make the decision based upon the later ripening fruit, and better vigor of the 3309 vine. I think I should be able to ripen them to sufficient levels most years.

Again, thanks for the help.

#4 Andy in SoCal

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 11:48 AM

QUOTE (Rickydhood @ Dec 10 2005, 12:12 AM)
I may make the decision based upon the later ripening fruit, and better vigor of the 3309 vine.


Where are you located?

I'm in SoCal and have 101-14 rootstock on my syrah. Like just about every grower in CA, I struggle with waaaay too much vigor. High vigor can be much more of a problem than normal vigor. (wrt to grape vines, I don't think there is such a thing as low vigor!)

fwiw!

Andy
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#5 Rickydhood

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 09:36 PM

QUOTE (Andy in SoCal @ Dec 10 2005, 12:20 PM)
Where are you located?


I'm in Utah, with very few local examples to take notes from. I guess in the long run, a vigorous vine is probably more challenging.

#6 Andy in SoCal

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:13 AM

Ricky, I'd imagine you'll be in much the same situation in Utah as we are in CA.

With tons of sun, and assuming you'll be irrigating, plenty of water, in combination with adequate soils (vines seem flourish in just about anything - from loam to sand to rock as long as they have enough sun and water), I think your vines'll grow like weeds.

Andy
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#7 Rickydhood

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 10:04 PM

Andy,

I guess there are pros and cons to each. Trying to make decisions that I won't have answers to for 3+ years can be a little frustrating. At some point I understand that I'm just going to have to put the vines in the ground.

#8 Gunn

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 09:14 AM

I am trying to figure this out, and now quickly; I'm running out of time to order, everything seems to be selling out!

Anyway, somewhere on the internet, I copied this quote:

"3309 performs poorly in low pH soils. 101-14 and 3309 have shallow, horizontal growing root systems."

This would suggest to me that 3309 needs higher-PH soils, which means usually adding lime. But Ralph, you mention that is has a low tolerance to limestone. What am I missing...?

I purchased an equal number of Chardonnay and Merlot last year on 3309 and 101-14 stock. I really didn't notice a difference between the two in the first year. They all grew about the same.

This year I'm going to order a much greater quantity and only want to stick with one. From what I'm reading, it just doesn't seem to matter much...

?




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