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Welch's Concord


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#1 klrabbit

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 06:37 PM

I have a 5 gal. batch of welch's concord grape in primary. It has gone to dry. SG is .994, but, I did a taste test the other day and it tastes a little tart. Will aging help with this?? My next batch I want to do welch's white niagara, any hints on cutting down on the tartness?? smileyhelp.gif

#2 neilt

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 02:22 PM

It might be a good idea to test your acid level, to see where things are at.

I made a batch of the stuff a while ago, and at the point you're at, it was hideous. It took 6 months to being to smooth out.

I started another batch this morning, and my acid content was .58%

#3 jwingo

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 03:16 PM

I did the welches white grape and it was really good, actually need to make more, because everyone wants more of it. Its not really high on the acid though. I had to add about 2 tsp per gallon and it ended at .75 with my acid kit which is right around white wine acid. Doesnt really have much of a bite. actually a good friend of mine who says all white wine gives him heartburn loves it beacuse it is so smooth. I plan on making at least another 3 gallon batch soon.
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#4 klrabbit

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 05:33 PM

I don't have an acid tester, but I can tell you that the recipe I used called for 1 tsp of acid blend per gal.. I did sample it again today with a little sugar added to the glass, and there was a big difference, very tasty. I think time will mellow it nicely, but I am going shopping for an acid tester anyway. BTW thanks again for the guidance, I don't know what I would do without this forum, everyone is so much help. I love it here. bawling.gif

#5 WineThief

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 05:53 PM

QUOTE
I have a 5 gal. batch of welch's concord grape in primary. It has gone to dry. SG is .994, but, I did a taste test the other day and it tastes a little tart. Will aging help with this??


Yes you have no idea how it will help it.. It will totally change and become more mellow.. You will be supprised at the change that takes place in the bottle. I have folks that have tasted my concord and keep asking for more cause it is so tasty.. Give it time in the bottle and it will be great..

QUOTE
My next batch I want to do welch's white niagara, any hints on cutting down on the tartness??


Add 2 oz of french toasted oak to the primary for a 3 gallon batch. or 3 oz for a 6 gallon batch in the primary.. It comes out wonderful and tastes like a chardonnay.. I really like it done like this and a year in the bottle only makes it better. If you like chardonnay you will like this..

I also agree with the others.... You need to get an acid test kit.. They are cheap and easy to use, and they do make a difference in the out come..

Terry
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"WINE IS A CONSTANT REMINDER THAT GOD LOVES US AND LOVES TO SEE US HAPPY"
Terry Neve

#6 Curt

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 07:45 PM

With the niagara, when you get to the end of fermentation and are totally dry add 4 ozs. of glycerin/5 gals. at the same time that you add the fining agent. It will add to the body and make it taste sweeter. No chance of refermentation either. I also added some charred wood before ageing. You might want to use the normal oak but I used maple and I really like it.
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#7 Vinmaker

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 08:12 AM

Did the Concord taste come out? The Concord grape has such a distinct taste. Did your batch loose some of this taste?

Happily Winemaking.

Waiting for the 2013 Harvest!


#8 klrabbit

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 08:39 AM

Vinmaker,

The concord taste is definately there, I have had alot of great suggestions here and in another thread. I think I am going to bulk age for awhile and test it again, before I make any decisions. I am afraid I will overdo anything I try now. I think I am finally learning to be a little more patient. Also, in the pic thread you commented on how dark it is, I used 17 cans of frozen concentrate for 5 gal. I'm sure that has something to do with both the darkness and the initial tartness.

#9 JohnF

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 07:53 PM

QUOTE (WineThief @ Jun 18 2005, 06:25 PM)
Add 2 oz of french toasted oak to the primary for a 3 gallon batch. or 3 oz for a 6 gallon batch in the primary.. It comes out wonderful and tastes like a chardonnay..

The regular white grape or the white grape/peach?

I think I'll start 5 gal. next weekend. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

John F

#10 WineThief

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 09:23 PM

John,
For a very nice chardonnay type wine, you would want to put the french toasted oak in with the welchs frozen 100% white grape (don't get the White Grape Cocktail).. I have made the White grape/Peach several times and it comes out great, very peachy and smells wonderful. But It is better sweetened up a bit and not oaked.. I have also made wine from most of the Welchs and Old Orchard juices. They are quick, easy to make and taste pretty good all in all.

Here is my recipe I use for frozen juices and it comes out great. You can use it with any of the Welchs 100% frozen juices or the Old Orchard 100% Juices.
QUOTE
Frozen Welchs Grape Juice Concentrates make a very nice table or social wine, and are very easy to make.
Some of the welchs brands are:
Concord 100% Grape Juice
White Niagara 100% Grape Juice
100% White Grape Raspberry Juice (if you make the Raspberry use ONLY 2 cans per gallon otherwise it can be very tart. Also if you make the raspberry I would advise keeping the starting SG to 1.080. Also, only use 1 tsp of acid blend with the raspberry)
100% White Grape Cranberry Juice
100% White Grape Peach Juice
100% White Grape Pear Juice

Old Orchard also has lots of different flavors of 100% juice that work just as well.  They usually mix their flavors with apple juice instead of white grape, like their Apple/Cherry,
Passion/Mango,
Kiwi/Strawberry
and other 100% juice concentrates.

The below recipe makes one gallon, you can multiply to make more.  I use 3 cans per gallon for a heavier bodied wine but you can use 2 cans per gallon to make a medium bodied wine if you like but if you use only 2 cans you will need to increase the starting sugar to about 1 lb per gallon. 

The beginning sugar addition to the 3 can recipe only starts at 1/2lb per gallon due to the different levels of starting sugar already in the different juices. Once the must is mixed up check SG and add enough sugar syrup to bring SG to between 1.080 to 1.090.


Recipe for Welch's Frozen 100% Grape Juice Wine
3 11.5 oz cans Welchs or Old Orchard 100% frozen juice concentrate (only 2 cans if making raspberry)
1 lbs granulated sugar to start then test SG and adjust to 1.080 to 1.090
2 tsp acid blend (or if possible test and add acid blend to TA .60)
1 tsp pectic enzyme
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1/2-tsp bentonite (only if you will be doing the fast clear method)
water to make 1 gallon
wine yeast - (Red Star Cote des Blanc or Premier Cuvee)

1- campden tablet to be added later
1/2-tsp potassium sorbate to be added later before sweeting

If you will be doing the Fast Clear method start on step 1.
If you will be doing the Natural clear method skip the bentonite & start on step 2


1. For fast clear method, add 4 cups hot water to bottom of sanitized primary. While stirring the water slowly sprinkle the bentonite into the water. Continue to stir for 30 seconds to ensure complete dispersal making sure to break up any clumps.
2. Open and stir in all the cans of Welch's Juice to primary. rinse cans with a small amount of warm water and add to primary.
3. Bring 1 quart water to boil and dissolve the sugar in the water. Remove from heat and stir into primary with the frozen concentrate.
4. Add additional cool water to make one gallon.  (If you are adding oak chips add them now approx 1/2 oz per gallon toasted oak.)
5 . Check and Adjust sugar if necessary to an SG of 1.085 to 1.090.
6. Add the acid blend, or if possible test acid and adjust to .60 TA
7. When cooled to room temp, (70-75F) add pectic enzyme and nutrient.
8. 12 hours later add Yeast.
9. When SG drops to 1.010 rack to clean sanitized carboy.
10. Allow to finish fermentation in the carboy for 2 weeks to 1 month until the SG is stable at around .990-.995.  Make sure all fermentation is finished.

For Natural Clearing
11. From here it is up to you you can follow the natural clearing process by carefully racking the wine off the gross lees to a clean sanitized carboy.  Stabilize by Stirring 1 campden tablet per gallon and 1/2 tsp Potassium Sorbate per gallon into 1/4 cup of cool water and add to the carboy that the wine is being racked into. Then, stir the wine vigorously for 3-4 minutes to help degass the wine, wait 5 minutes and stir again VIGOROUSLY for another 3-4 minutes. Then top up and rack every 30-60 days (You don't usually need to add any further campdens or potassium metabisulphite to this wine because welchs does come with SO2 added and is usually sufficient to protect the wine for many years... I only add it at the stabilizing stage)  After 6 months if wine is clear, taste to determine if you want or need to sweeten..  If sweetening is desired add sugar syrup to sweeten to taste and allow to sit another 30-60 days then rack off sediment or filter the wine into a clean sanitized carboy..  Let sit for another 30 to 60 days and if completely clear you can bottle..  This process takes 8-12 months give or take.

Fast Clear Method, for quicker bottling and consumption this juice will respond well if you treat it just like a winekit
11. Do not rack at this time leave sediment.  Stabilize by stirring 1 campden tablet per gallon and 1/2 tsp Potassium Sorbate per gallon into 1/4 cup of cool water and add to the carboy of wine. Stir the wine vigorously for 3-4 minutes to help degass the wine, use a Fiz-X and VacuVin if you have them. Wait 5 minutes then Stir again VIGOROUSLY for another 3-4 minutes. Repeat several more times if necessary, it is important to completely degass your wine before moving to the clearing stage. Then add the recommended amount of Sparkloid (follow the instructions that come with the package) (Super Kleer will also work, but I like sparkloid for welchs wines) and stir again vigorously for another 2-3 minutes to degass and drive off the CO2. (You don't usually need to add any further campdens or potassium metabisulphite to this wine because welchs does come with SO2 added and is usually sufficient to protect the wine for many years... I only add it at the stabilizing stage)  Then top up and allow to clear for 2 weeks..  When clear rack to a clean carboy and let stand for 30 days..  After 30 days taste to determine if you want or need to sweeten..  If sweetening is desired add sugar syrup to taste and allow to sit another 30 days. When the second 30 days is past either rack or filter the wine into a clean sanitized carboy..  Let sit for 2 weeks and bottle..  This faster method will put the wine in the bottle in 90 days..


I am making an Old Orchard Apple/Passion/Mango that smells wonderful.. I think it will come out great.. We will have to wait and see..

Terry

Edited by WineThief, 24 February 2008 - 09:54 AM.

In the immortal words of Ben Franklin,
"WINE IS A CONSTANT REMINDER THAT GOD LOVES US AND LOVES TO SEE US HAPPY"
Terry Neve

#11 JohnF

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 02:11 PM

Wow Wine Thief that info rocks!

Now if you tell me how to figure out the ratios for using the concentrates as a base and adding fruit for accents as in....

per gallon

X can(s) concentrate
X lb(s) frozen blueberries...bananas....etc

I'll be busy for all of 2005 biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

John

#12 WineThief

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 02:26 PM

What seems works best for me when I am adding fruit for accent to the juice is 2 cans of welchs to 2-3 lbs of fruit per gallon. When using it as a suppliment to fruit to add body I use 1 can of welchs to 4-5 lbs of fruit (depending on the fruit) per gallon.

The fruit amounts can vary based on amount of juice produced, sweetness, acid content and other factors, but the above works +/- for most fruits. This would apply to fruits and not grapes, I would only add welchs to grapes if I was going to use table grapes for wine.. blink.gif Then again, I am not sure I would even add it then.. ohmy.gif

Others may have some other ideas on what they recommend for the blend hopefully they will post...
In the immortal words of Ben Franklin,
"WINE IS A CONSTANT REMINDER THAT GOD LOVES US AND LOVES TO SEE US HAPPY"
Terry Neve

#13 Vinmaker

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 07:24 PM

Great post Terry. You have got me in the mood to go to my local grocery store now. biggrin.gif

Happily Winemaking.

Waiting for the 2013 Harvest!


#14 Vinmaker

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 07:26 PM

QUOTE (klrabbit @ Jun 19 2005, 09:11 AM)
Vinmaker,

The concord taste is definately there, I have had alot of great suggestions here and in another thread. I think I am going to bulk age for awhile and test it again, before I make any decisions. I am afraid I will overdo anything I try now. I think I am finally learning to be a little more patient. Also, in the pic thread you commented on how dark it is, I used 17 cans of frozen concentrate for 5 gal. I'm sure that has something to do with both the darkness and the initial tartness.

Smart idea to wait. Sounds like you have gotten the master rule of winemaking. biggrin.gif

The 17 cans is probably it. Terry suggests 3 cans per gallon. That would be 15 cans for your batch. You used two extra cans. Looks like a good investment. smileytoast.gif

Happily Winemaking.

Waiting for the 2013 Harvest!


#15 WineThief

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE (Vinmaker @ Jun 20 2005, 07:56 PM)
Great post Terry. You have got me in the mood to go to my local grocery store now. biggrin.gif

These Welchs wines are not designed to be great wines, but just good easy to drink table or sipping wine. You will be supprised at how many folks comment on how good they are.. When I tell them they are made from Welches they are always shocked.. roflmao.gif

Besides it is good to have a gallon of the white grape sitting around in 375ml bottles for topping up.. tongue.gif wink.gif

Enjoy
In the immortal words of Ben Franklin,
"WINE IS A CONSTANT REMINDER THAT GOD LOVES US AND LOVES TO SEE US HAPPY"
Terry Neve




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