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Ny95.0301.01 = Arandell!


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#16 Grafted Grapevine

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:53 AM

HoCo Al, With that amount of vigor, I would allow it to crop to help "keep it under control". Probably leave 1 cluster per shoot. If you can prune your vines to the equivalent of full size vine, about 30 "fruiting" buds, and then collect the brush that you pruned off. Weigh the each vines brush. If you have 2 pounds or more, leave as pruned. If 1.5 pounds of brush, reduce to ~25 buds; if 1 pound, reduce to ~20 buds. This will help to keep your vine in a balanced level of vigor and crop.

At least that is how I would handle them.

Eric


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#17 Chano Aguayo

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:06 AM

HoCoAl,

If I we're in your shoes, I would make a tiny small amount of wine from a few of the mlst vigorous vines to assess your future potential crops. It is Ver tempting for new growers seeing all those nice and vigorous clusters and use the entire crop. In your case, you made a wise investment with the compost and now you are viewing excellent results. Whether you use all the crop or part of it is your decision, but I would make only enough wine for two or thee bottles and remove everything else including all the laterals from the leaf axils along tbe trunks up to a point eight inches below the fruit wire.
The three large vineyards I mentione in my post were ownewd in Monterey County,CA by Gold Seal Vineyards from Hammonsdport, New York therefore, they had the money, lots of dinero for innovation. For the irrigation lines we joined all the pvc with their respective risers and a special plow was designed and trough some mechanical configuration was attached to one side of a D5-Cat driven at 5 mph. The line was laid two feet away from the vine row and 18 inches deep. The next operation was hand digging with a narrow shovel by field employees from the riser connecetd to the lateral to the stake, fill back and snap the risers to the plastic clips (three per stake) along the side of a hardwood pressure treated stake. The tool and related hardware for the above operation was designed and fabricated by the shop mechanic who was a graduate from Cal Poly with a B.S, in Agricultural Engineering. After all the lines were buried, the implements and augering tools were destroyed. No oustside visitors were allowed nor pictures taken. We took all precautionary measures to ensure no one was observing that operation with cameras or binaculars, not even the owners/investors of the properties ever saw the tools nor the operation working. The equippment was parked overnight in the shop under lock.
Today there are machines that can lay a line underground with no need to use a trencher. Nevertheless I woul like to see a small gas, hand operated trencher that can form a trench 12 to 14 inches from the vine row.
HoCoAl,in most plantings for most vineyad developement I was involved, the planting hole was hand dug with a shovel like you did and how most vineyards are planted. Thanks.

Chano
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#18 Wade's Wines

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:25 AM

Chano, 

 

Interesting!  Why were they so secretive about it all?

 

Last year I planted 4 rows using a "Ditch Witch" type trencher.  We trenched the rows, then used the blade on the front to fill the rows back in, then hand planted in the newly turned soil.  We didn't bury the drip line, but in one of the rows we buried a 1" pvc waterline to the far end of the row to make water accessable at that end of the vineyard.  The trencher was a great tool for breaking up the clay/chirt soil and opening it up for better drainage.

 

Though we didn't do it,  I think buried drip line makes good sense.

 

Wade


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#19 HoCo Al

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

HoCo Al, With that amount of vigor, I would allow it to crop to help "keep it under control". Probably leave 1 cluster per shoot. If you can prune your vines to the equivalent of full size vine, about 30 "fruiting" buds, and then collect the brush that you pruned off. Weigh the each vines brush. If you have 2 pounds or more, leave as pruned. If 1.5 pounds of brush, reduce to ~25 buds; if 1 pound, reduce to ~20 buds. This will help to keep your vine in a balanced level of vigor and crop.

At least that is how I would handle them.

Eric

Hi Eric,

 

Your advice seems to me to be my best bet for controlling the vigor. I have also planted tall fescue in the alleys, leaving a 4 foot wide clear space under the trellises. In retrospect I perhaps should have planted the cover coser to the vines to help control the vigor more. I'm going to wait until early March to prune. At that point I will take your advice on the bud counts and weighing of the prunings.

 

So then the other major decisions will be:

 

1) Do I create a split canopy on one or two of the varieties with the most vigor, at least as an experiment, or just go with VSP for everything to begin with. My Traminette, Corot Noit and Cabernet Franc were probably the most vigorous, but I'll know after I weigh the prunings;

 

2) How much fruit to leave (and when to drop the excess clusters). I am thinking to at least leave one cluster per shoot until veraison, and then make a final decision. That should further help control the vigor, and perhaps help the shoot growth to slow dow or stop significantly by veraison. I may also experiment by leaving more fruit on some vines and less on others to see what effect that has on excess vigor, which is what everyone around here is telling me is likely to be my biggest problem.

 

Anyway, thanks Eric and Chano for the advice. I'll check back later in the season to let you know how it is going.



#20 Grafted Grapevine

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:16 AM

HoCo Al,

First off, the cover crop will not reduce vigor that much, since your roots will be going deeper than the fescue will. But it will help with moisture. With that in mind, if you get a very dry summer, you may need to disk up your cover crop to avoid it from competing for water. 

1) Corot Noir does not do well with VSP. It really shoots off many side shoots (laterals), which create a great deal of mutual shading. If you stick with VSP, you will need to cut off the side shoots, at least in the first 18+ inches of growth to keep your fruiting buds for next year exposed to sunlight. If you allow the side shoots to stay, they will maintain shade, leading to non-fruitful buds next year, increasing the vigor problem. 

If you want to try to do a split canopy, it is probably easier to start that now than to wait. The Traminette and Cab. Franc should be well suited to a split canopy system.

2) Cut the extra clusters off after bloom is complete. If you feel the vines are not as vigorous as you would like, you can cut the final cluster off at veraision, however, if you see that you still have shoot tip growth at veraison, leave the fruit on.  The tip growth is an indication that the vine is still too vigorous. You need a sink for that energy, and it might as well be fruit, something that you can use! 

Eric


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#21 HoCo Al

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:32 AM

Once again thanks for the advice, Eric.

 

I will have irrigation lines in this season, soI'm not concerned about the cover crop if the season is dry - which lately has never been a problem. I think it's been 4 or 5 years since we had a really dry season here in my location.

 

So what trellis system do you recommend for Corot Noir?

 

I will almost definitely start with split canopy for the Traminette. I actually already have two fruiting wires installed on the Traminette trellis, but not yet on the Cab Franc. I'll decide on the Cab Franc when I start to prune them. In both cases my trellises are high enough, plus I kept the lowest fruiting wire about 42" off the ground in anticipation of a possible split canopy. We'll see,

 

Got it on the cluster thinning. Thanks for the clarification - your advice ties in well with everything Ive been reading.

 

Al



#22 Grafted Grapevine

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:28 PM

I have found that a High wire cordon seems to work best for the Corot Noir. We have ours on a single "curtain", and it works very well this way. 


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#23 Chano Aguayo

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:43 AM

Wade,

The fellow used parts from his father's ranch where he grew up, to build the line burying jig and used his own personal time working until very late hours inside of the shop. He next asked the on-site general manager who oversaw the company's west coast operation to arrange with the company's investors to apply for a patent for which he did not receive a warm reception. I do not know the complete inside details, but in the end he destroyed every tool atteched to the field equipment. After all the three vineyards were planted. He left the company to work for a machine shop where he developed a welding technique that is currently used in the welding industry. About twelve years ago I drove through the area and the 100 and 385 acre vineyards were gone. I do not know about the 1,100 acre vineyard, but the two smaller properties were planted with. Vegetables which are excellent cash crps in the Salinas Valley. Thanks.

Chano
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#24 Wade's Wines

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:56 AM

Interesting, Chano, thanks for the rest of the story!


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#25 Chano Aguayo

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:24 PM

You are welcome, Wade. Chano
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#26 Air

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:32 PM

Sup friends?



#27 Air

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:26 PM

OK, so I guess I'll post next then...

 

Nice to see everyone. How ya been? good, great. Me too, thank you for asking...

 

Riddle me this, comrades:

 

The NY95s (Arandells, if you will - fancy name, oh eh?) that were/are being taken care of properly aren't growing nearly as well as those that are... how should I put it... being allowed to grow in a... You know when you see a guy on the street and he's talking to himself like, "Leave me alone, I say! I say, leave me alone!"

 

So I was all, "Aiiight, with cho new fancy name! I'll leave you be." So it be a bush. What's more there be weeds 'n such. Well, some weeds. And there's this one plant that has this "tree-like" bush growing next to it and, you are not going to believe me friends... I mean you are not going to believe me friends... but the vine is up to my head. It grabbed onto that tree thing and just, "Uhhh, could you get the 8th floor please, thanks." 

 

What's all this about, then?" Ya take care of the NY95s, ya do as y'are told and it's live sticks with leaves. Ya follow your instincts and beautiful leaves all around. Bushes. With zero spray. Still not close to reaching anything resembling a trellis wire. 

 

I'll take your comments off the air. 

 

Peace out and may the wine world be with you. 



#28 bigdrums2

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:36 AM

Was there a question?

#29 Wade's Wines

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:58 AM

The bush or tree is probably a plant that puts nitrogen into the soil, such as a locust tree.

My prettiest vines are all near a persimmon tree's root zone.

I have about 70 young NY95 growing next to Regent planted at the same time.  Regent is much more impressive as far as growth goes.  NY95 seems a little puny.  Haven't tasted grapes or made wine from either, but I sure like the looks of the Regent better.


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#30 Air

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:16 PM

so how do you make the ny95 not puny? how do we make it grand, royal, huge? grow up, up, up, reach for the sky?






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