29 replies to this topic

[Bar Barrique]

With this factor in mind, what would you guess is the aging potential of WE's new Int'l w/ Grape Skins kits? I'd like to try a couple, but my consumption plan would put them about 2 years old before we started drinking them. Hmm.

Coates Law of Maturity says that a wine should remain at it's peak for a period equal to the time it took to achieve it's peak flavour, but
I don't think that it can be strictly applied to blends of concentrates, and, juices of varying potential.

I'm not sure about the aging potential of the new WE skins kits, but if I was going to guess; I think that they would be good between 2 & 3 years. I would expect that there would be some variation between the different kits.

Wine appreciation is a subjective thing. I thought the CC Amarone was at it's best between 2 & 3 years, but my wife liked it better after 3 years when it had mellowed somewhat.

Cheers;

Bar

[tom sawyer]

I purposely have not put my first Intl skins kit in the barrel just so I could try it like other people would. I'm fermenting a second now and a third is on its way soon.

[jbo_c]

Had not heard 'Coates Law' before, but that was basically exactly my experience with the CC Rosso Fortissimo and Barbera - the two kits I've aged the longest.

Jbo

[del Sol]

Great discussion...

...if I may, I'd like to offer a slightly dissenting opinion:

I'm presently drinking kits that I made in 2004, and 2005.

They are at least as good as they were a couple of years ago, and some are even better. NO sign of deterioration at all...no caramel taste.

My storeage/corkage has been pretty good, and it has paid off. The only variable is that all of my kits from these years are 18Litre RJ Spagnols En Primeurs.

Hmmmmmm,

del Sol

[JW Austin]

The only variable is that all of my kits from these years are 18Litre RJ Spagnols En Primeurs.

Well, it is good to know that ultra-premium kits will last at least 8 years in good storage conditions. Do you have many 6 year old kits which were 16L kits? Seems like most of mine are 16L...

[Bar Barrique]

...if I may, I'd like to offer a slightly dissenting opinion:

I'm presently drinking kits that I made in 2004, and 2005.

The only variable is that all of my kits from these years are 18Litre RJ Spagnols En Primeurs.

Hmmmmmm, (del Sol quote) My browser isn't well supported by the software here, no big deal.


Interesting that your En Primeur kits are showing well after extended aging. Perhaps they contain more juice than most other kits. I have some En Primeur "on deck", though it will be years before I can taste the results.
I seem to recall that you were making RJS Winery series as well, do you have any that are aged beyond 3 years?

Cheers;

Bar

[del Sol]

...if I may, I'd like to offer a slightly dissenting opinion:

I'm presently drinking kits that I made in 2004, and 2005.

The only variable is that all of my kits from these years are 18Litre RJ Spagnols En Primeurs.

Hmmmmmm, (del Sol quote) My browser isn't well supported by the software here, no big deal.


Interesting that your En Primeur kits are showing well after extended aging. Perhaps they contain more juice than most other kits. I have some En Primeur "on deck", though it will be years before I can taste the results.
I seem to recall that you were making RJS Winery series as well, do you have any that are aged beyond 3 years?

Cheers;

Bar

Hi Bar,

Thanks for your response.

I've only made one Winery Series RJS kit....the Chilean Carmenere, however, it's only 2 years old. I'm really enjoying the odd "sample", but probably won't get seriously "into it" for another year.

When I first got into kit winemaking, in 2004, I made the decision to go with En Primeurs for all my reds.....with an exception, or two, for varietals not available in the En Primeur lineup.

They have, IMHO, been VERY good, and I highly recommend them.

Precisely why they are ageing so well, is a complete mystery to me.......a mystery I'm enjoying to the fullest!

Cheers, del Sol

[Vern_L_Equinox]

Great post, Lennie ... and timely. I had my first bad bottle of home wine last week ... so bad, I poured the bottle down the sink after a few tastes. It was only 2-1/2 years old (the WE International Selection Australian GSM).

Only a couple of posts have mentioned cork quality which I believe is paramount. The cork in this particular bottle actually broke as I tried to extract it ... another first in my home winemaking career. The cork was dry and somewhat brittle even though the bottle was stored on its side ... that should have been my first clue that something wasn't right. It was a cheap, conglomerate cork (which I no longer use). I'm hoping this partucular cork was the problem and that it's not indiciative of a bigger problem. Otherwise I have a lot of wine I need to drink very quickly.

I now use a natural cork that my LHBS lists as a 10 year cork.

[Bar Barrique]

Great post, Lennie ... and timely. I had my first bad bottle of home wine last week ... so bad, I poured the bottle down the sink after a few tastes. It was only 2-1/2 years old (the WE International Selection Australian GSM).

Only a couple of posts have mentioned cork quality which I believe is paramount. The cork in this particular bottle actually broke as I tried to extract it ... another first in my home winemaking career. The cork was dry and somewhat brittle even though the bottle was stored on its side ... that should have been my first clue that something wasn't right. It was a cheap, conglomerate cork (which I no longer use). I'm hoping this partucular cork was the problem and that it's not indiciative of a bigger problem. Otherwise I have a lot of wine I need to drink very quickly.

I now use a natural cork that my LHBS lists as a 10 year cork.

Larry; what was the fault with the wine?
I have used a variety of corks over many years, and, I have not noticed that expensive natural corks are better, except for "presentation" purposes.
My experience is that agglomerated corks can provide a reliable way to seal your wine.
All cork types are subject to failures, however; in my experience for the term of storage that most kit makers would need (say 3 years), less expensive agglomerated corks are cost effective.

Bar

[Vern_L_Equinox]

Bar -

The wine was thin and acidic ... you might even say it had a hint of vinegar. The more I think about it the more I think that single cork might have been at fault. It just didn't look right the way it crumbled apart ... like it didn't have enough of the "resin" that holds all of the cork material together.

[Of course the bottle could have been contaminated with something at bottling ... another possibility to consider.]

[pcphog]

In a case like this there is only one thing to do. Open another bottle of the same stuff and see what you get. I had a bad bottle of chardonnay once that had me convinced the whole batch was bad but it turned out to be just the one. So hopefully you will have a similar result.

[Vern_L_Equinox]

I like your way of thinking ... when all else fails, open another bottle!

[Bar Barrique]

I like your way of thinking ... when all else fails, open another bottle!

Works for me!

[del Sol]

...and me!

Amusing story:...the FIRST bottle of the FIRST kit wine I ever opened was bad!

I thought "God what have I done....30 bottles of this undrinkable swill?"

Turns out there was a small piece of old crumbling cork floating in the wine. Not from my cork, it was whole. Must have been lodged in my floor corker, and found it's way into bottle numero uno.

How the piece of old cork got in my NEW Italian floor corker is still a mystery.

del Sol

[jerzy_s]

How the piece of old cork got in my NEW Italian floor corker is still a mystery.

Was the bottle new? Maybe it was stuck in the bottle?