11 replies to this topic

[burky]

One of my oldest barrels (about two years old) is giving my wine a somewhat musty smell
It happened on the last two wines that went through the barrel.
I am thinking a percarbonate cleaning would possibly take care of my problem
What percarbonate based cleaner is reccomended for this?
Would One Step Cleaner work?

Any suggestions on what the problem may be with my barrel?

[Tomer1]

Most likely a bacterial problem.

[Fishnwine]

I have only heard of two ways to get rid of a bad barrel taste and only one sure way. The sure way is to replace the barrel. The other is to flood the barrel with ozone and that may clear up the problem. Once a barrel gets infected the infection has so many places to hide in the porous wood it is exceptionally hard to rid your barrel of the problem.

[fmestas]

"Musty" to me sounds like low level TCA or "cork taint." If so, I would get rid of that barrel ASAP.

[Crazy Run Ranch]

Or brettanomyces. I had a barrel develop low level Brett and I didn't want to give up on it, 30g neutral barrels are valuable to me. So I soaked it in strong proxycarb solution and then had a winery cellar master friend steam it then follow with heavy dose of sulphur gas. In theory any one of those would take care of the Brett. But its hard to be 100% effective cleaning a barrel. The barrel is back in use but watching closely to make sure the Brett is gone. If not, its firewood. I would be scared of simply treating with proxy only.

[gregorio]

Musty can be just about any infection including Brett, Candida, Acetobacter and others. Percarbonate can be effective on most but not a guarantee. Use 1lb in a 60 gallon barrel overnight followed by an acidic rinse.

[rpage53]

And you need to be vigilant to keep sulfite levels high in the "clean" barrel. The infection is still there but at lower levels.

In a recent discussion about Brett, Zac mentioned that he felt many wines from smaller producers (and home winemakers) were sulphurous and that is the conundrum if you can't afford to replace infected barrels. Sulfur is easily reduced by decanting though, especially with whites, and seems to be the preferable flaw.

Rick.

[bzac]

this sounds more microbial than sulfur.

percarbonate followed by citirc acid as Greg suggests is a good way to reduce microbial load in a barrel.

I would fill the barrel with very hot water percabonate& soak overnight , then rinse well with water and refill the barrel with hot water and a high dose of citric acid .this will neutralise the base percabonate. let it soak for a couple hours , drain and rinse well

I then give it a rinse with a very very strong kmeta solution , sloshed it all around for a while, drained the solution and filled with wine

not a 100% but it may be effective.

I would question your sulfite addition practices as its usually when free so2 levels drop too low that these issues can develop in a barrel, headspace and frequent opening of the barrel should also be avoided.

I had a small barrel develop these issues . I did the percabonate soak / citric rinse . then kmeta rinse described above
When I filled it up with wine , I also innoculated it with mlf starter built with vp41 and conducted mlf in it under airlock . my rational being to have a friendly bacteria be the doninant strain .

when mlf was completed , all wine stored in that barrel have been given a 10% higher than normal so2 addition . I also give it a strong kmeta rinse between batches .
I use this barrel still , and add a fresh mlb innoculant with every batch (although not the same mlb strain) . its become my pinot noir barrel for doing mlf in oak

[burky]

Some great suggestions here folks,Thanks!!!

Zac, you could be correct that low sulfite levels brought on my problem. When I got my first barrels a few years back I wasn't as vigilant to to check sulfite levels. Now since I have a Vinmetrica it's much easier to check every few month. I already add about 20 - 25% higher dosage of kmeta then needed that way in two month when I come back to check the sulfite levels usually aren't extremely low

My current barrel room is is very humid often over 75% causing me to have mold problems on the exterior of the barrels especially around the bung holes and on several stave ends that have seepage.When topping up I always clean the mold with a strong Kmeta acid solution but am thinking the mold might still be part of the problem.
I sure don't want this to spread to my other 8 barrels, 3- 50 Liter and 5- 20 Liter barrels.

[bzac]

exterior mold isn't a big issue unless it gets in around the bung . you can apply mildewcide when empty. strong kmeta sprays around the bung are a good idea.
spray and wipe up any wine spilled on the exterior .

I've seen barrel rooms where the barrels were completely black , they still produced great wine.

seeping stave ends isnt good , is it from the grain or between the staves?

is your barrel leaking around the rubber bung?

[burky]

My seepage problem at the stave ends is through the grain
All my barrels are Vadai and about half of them have that seepage issue
Sandor was really good and sent me some beeswax but that still didn't solve the problem completely.

I also had some seepage around the bung holes at times but waxing the bung hole as mentioned in another thread some time ago seemed to take care of that problem.

[Tomer1]

You can shape a smell oak peg to plug the vein, Look around on youtube there is a video there showing a barrel maker fixing a leak.