13 replies to this topic

[feffer]

First try using a pump. I used it to pull wine from a carboy through a whole house filter and into a bottling bucket. The output to the bucket was very frothy. This settled down after about 20 minutes and I could start bottling. The frothy condition of the wine after going through the pump has me worried. I wasn't expecting it. Will this harm or oxidize the wine?

Initially, I ran a 1.25% K-meta solution through it, and after about 3 gallons of water, then the wine. The K-meta did not foam, and the wine looked OK going thru the lines from the carboy to the filter and the filter to the pump. However the wine was clearly frothy in the line coming out of the pump. This type of diaphragm pump is advertized as "gentle" on the wine. I don't think gas in the wine caused the foam. It was started last August and racked 3 times by manual siphoning. It hasn't shown a tendency to give off gas before.

So I'm wondering why it happened? Or maybe this is a common occurrence? Also, will it cause oxidation or other problem?

[Crazy Run Ranch]

You had the filter on the suction side of the pump? If so that's the problem, the wine is cavitating past the filter. Go straight from the carboy to the pump then into the filter and bucket. Make sure all the joints are tight and leak free. You shouldn't have any bubbles when pumping.

[Calamity Cellars]

With all pumps the rule is it is better to blow than suck. I know its a bit crude but the best way to remember is nobody wants a suck job but everyone wants a .....you get the point. The only exception is a vacuum pump which is made to suck. I would guess that CRR is right that the foaming is from cavitation or it may be CO2 coming out of solution from the low pressure created. There is also the possibility that you had an air leak in the filter or one of the fittings and the frothing was from that. This would not be good. This is another reason to blow not suck. Either way, in the future put your pump as close to the source of wine as possible, preferably with gravity providing some pump suction pressure, and push the wine through the filter and then into the bottling bucket.

[Tomer1]

+1 ,mechanical pumps push.

[feffer]

Yes, I was using the pump to suck the wine through the filter. It did not look frothy after going thru the filter, but it did have more air in the line. So I think CRR was right when he said, "the wine is cavitating past the filter." I'll change the configuration next time I try it. I gather the ideal setup is to have wine moving thru the lines w/o any air.

btw, thx CC for the helpful way to remember this

[Tomer1]

You want to eliminate any air in the hoses before starting, even if your pump is self priming.

[gregorio]

You want to eliminate any air in the hoses before starting, even if your pump is self priming.

That is not really feasible nor necessary. If the hoses and connections are leak free, all air will be eliminated quickly when using a positive displacement type pump like a diphram. Turbine pumps, absolutely need to be air free upon startup but I would never use one to move wine.

[feffer]

OK, thx all. That explains the pump configuration issue very well. I'm still have some questions about filtering, but will start another thread for that.

[Tomer1]

That is not really feasible nor necessary

Ok, do your best to eliminate air... In the input that is.
The output may be difficult but I imagine its feasable to use gas and fill from the bottom of the tank if your really anal about exposing your wine to oxygen.


I have found that If I have siginificant amount of air in my hoses its sometimes difficult to prime.

[Crazy Run Ranch]

I have found that If I have siginificant amount of air in my hoses its sometimes difficult to prime.

Sounds like you have an impeller pump which is a different animal. Diaphragm pumps will push air and self prime.

[Chris_Austin]

related question on the same pump.

I used mine for the first time. First off - I love the speed and the ability to fill up hill to the shelf where the carboy will sit! That is really really nice!

Question: when I got to the bottom of the barrel I sucked a lot of air into the hose which then vented into the carboy... what are the impacts of this aeration on the wine, if any?

(FWIW: the wine is a 2010 sangiovese and is about ready for bottling. 6 gallons and had been in the 1 year old vadai barrel for about 16 weeks. The wine will be bottled next month when I do a general bottle production run).

[Crazy Run Ranch]

That will happen with a diaphragm pump. Its great that they can pump air and self prime. But you need to remember this as you approach the bottom and pull the exit hose up above the liquid level. This way, the air is released rather than injected into the wine. So that's for next time. If you sucked a little air in the first time out, I wouldn't worry too much. If you are maintaining your SO2 level it will protect you from a minor amount of oxygen intake. When I used to use my electric drive diaphragm, I found using a foot switch (one borrowed from table saw) was super slick to use. That way I could shut off the pump with my hands full. I already had the switch but I think they are fairly cheap, around $25. You can also use a remote switch by I found the foot switch more positive.

[Calamity Cellars]

I have found the big bubbles over a very short period of time that occur when pumping the last of a container do not affect the wine. Nor does the short term exposure of having a container open while racking, etc. Oxidized wines occur when a container is left open for more lengthy times. Last year I was racking my Chardonnay and a crazy stray dog ran into my garage. In chasing him out and talking with a neighbor about the situation I completely forgot I was racking using the small sureflow pump on a buon vino super jet. I bet I pumped air into that chardonnay for 15-20 minutes. There were no ill effects. I say that to lend some credibility to my next statement which is I think we tend to over worry as small producers. Keep the SO2 levels where they should be and keep the containers sealed properly when not performing winery operations and the wines will be just fine.

[Chris_Austin]

thanks guys.

CCR - good point on getting the outlet hose out of the target carboy, Didn't think about that earlier today and it is a real simple solution.

Alan - thanks for the perspective, especially as this Sangiovese is (IMHO) the best red wine I've made to date, and I'd prefer to avoid messing it up at this point since I'm close to bottling. I tend to not worry over much, but I do like to avoid "easy" mistakes. I like to think winemaking is fairly simple. But there is a huge difference between simple and easy!