15 replies to this topic

[Wade's Wines]

If you had a large commercial upright freezer full of Triple Crown 2011 Blackberries (I do), what acid, pH and s.g. would you aim for? I'm about to start this wine as soon as I find time to thaw the berries. Help me here, my Friends! I have yet to weigh the berries, but I'm guessing more than 100 pounds. I'd really like to start at all the right numbers... and think how it's the best blackberry I've ever made later!
Please help!
When I get the time to thaw these gifts from the Gods I'll be happy to share the process and finished wine with all who help!
I can't even conceive how they've stayed in a freezer this long!

[Climber]

Wade,

I just pitched the yeast on my 2011 Himalayan blackberries last night. Didn't have enough to make it like Green Zeus, but I went with 7 lbs to the gallon. I added a little acid blend to reach 3.4 pH. That put my TA at 87 - higher than I like, but we'll see what happens in the end. I sweetened to an sg of 1.088.

Now I'm hoping the power doesn't go off! ... They're forecasting a heavy snowfall and wind tonight. Electric is my only heat source. hopefully it won't stall my fermenting.

Larry

[WVMountaineerJack]

2 batches Wade:

First batch, one 5 gallon batch made from 50 pounds of berries. I dont suggest adding any carbonate, it can decrease the color intensity. Just go with whatever pH and TA you get. Starting SG around 1.10. Use honey if you can get it or just sugar. When this finishes and is clear its going to have a lot of acid, that is ok, balance it out with both sugar and everyclear. This one is going to age well into your old age. Some would consider this a port style or dessert style, its going to be good. If you want to bulk up the body add some extra light dried malt extract. Maybe use EC1118 or Premier Cuvee to drive the alchohol level up and keep feeding them a little sugar every time the gravity drops below 1.01, adding enough to increase it by 0.01 each time until the yeast give up.

Second batch you dilute the juice to a TA around .75-.8, dont worry about adjusting the pH as you are going to backsweeten this just enough to balance the acid levels to bring out the fruit after it clears. This is your regular drinking blackberry. Pasteur Red, K1V-1116 would be good for this batch.

We like to thaw the berries, crush them up (I use a grape crusher set tight) and add pectinases and KMeta overnight in nice warm place. The next morning we drain the juice and lightly squeeze the fruit in strainer bags. If you do it like this you wont get the bitterness from the seeds, and if you want you can make a seconds batch from the pulp but after crushing and pectinase treatment you get most of the goodies out. Toss in some oak if you like oak, some good nutrient, and off you go. Later fine it and make sure it clear before you bottle it so you dont get any sediment in your bottles.

Of course I wouldnt be CC if I didnt add that a few elderberries, dried and simmered a little while would add some nice color and flavor to both batches.

Crackedcork

[Wade's Wines]

Good advice Guys!
CC, I made my 2010 just about like the way you describe the first batch, fortified with brandy, but only about 6# to the gallon.

This year I may make it more like the second way, avoiding prolonged exposure to seeds. I don't mind a bit of tannin from the seeds in Blackberry, but I have a lot bottled with higher tannin from '08 and want to try making it very fruity this time, low tannin. I'll probably oak about half of it with Tennessee white oak, dry 2+ years, toast yet to be determined.

I have lots of dry Blackberry on the shelf, so this will probably get a little sweetening, not much.

I'll probably go with nearly 100% juice, no water, except to adjust acidity with if it's high. I'll see when I get it out and thaw it. Both 1118 and 1116 have never let me down. What do you think of a slower ferment with maybe 71B? Haven't thought that through, just tossing it out there.

I may aim for a lower alcohol wine this time, try to make something anywone would love. I tend to aim for 12% but maybe 10% this time.

Last year I made a second run on my blackberries. It came out a bit harsh with tannins, but fortified and sweetened higher than I normally would and it's very good!

Thanks again!

[Green Zeus]

Wade----If you have high acid, as we do, don't add water. Hit it with some calcium carbonate. Our berries are very high acid here because of our acidic soil, so we always adjust the PH to around 3.3 or so. Everytime you are tempted to add water----don't do it.

The way we do it is to get the berries thawed and estimate how many gallons of wine it will yield. Then we adjust our chemistries accordingly. Use a nice culture that will bring out the berry flavor. You already know we favor Montrachet for all our fruit wines. You might like to leave some of it unoaked so you can evaluate the intense berry flavor. You can always oak more of it later on if you want to.

We always aim for 12.5% alcohol. We don't like 10% because we always have carboys of it sitting around. But 100 pounds won't make a lot of wine---for us it would be about 8 gallons. I know you can consume 8 gallons in short order, especially when the wine is awesome. So the amount of alcohol is up to your judgement and what you're going to do with the wine.

[Green Zeus]

We don't like slow ferments on fruits. Just do it and get it done works well for us and avoids the problems of long ferments.

[saramc]

Wade,
Blend some of that dry blackberry with pear...so good. Will be watching this thread so see what you end up doing. I know it will turn out great!!!

~Sara

[Steve mead]

Do consider making a small batch of blackberry melomel using blackberry blossom honey. Pairing the honey and fruit produced from the same blossoms produces excellent results. I usually shoot for about 14% abv and sweeten to just off dry. Lalvin K1v-1116 has been my mead yeast of choice for many years. I'm sure whatever recipe you use will be great, best of luck with it!
Steve

[Wade's Wines]

Just checked my notes on 2010 Blackberries and I had 182# then, probably a good bit nore than that in 2011. I'll weigh them as I take them out of the freezer.

GZ, I agree completely and will adjust with calcium carbonate rather than with water.
Montrachet is on the list of choices, as well as 1116 and 1118.
I may leave it all unoaked this year, not sure. I really love oaked blackberry though. So probably splitting it up.

Sara, I love pear too and have blended blackberry and pear a glass at a time many times. Very nice! But my 2011 Peear is already fermented, so can't co-ferment them this time.

Steve, I've never made mead or melomel. I love the idea of adding Blackberry Blossom Honey, but have never seen it. It's got to be delicious! My problem is, I'm like Pooh about honey, I love it so much I haven't been able to ferment it yet... it just goes right in my mouth! Biscuits are just an excuse for honey... I prefer eating it with a spoon, but don't mind using my hand(s)!

I think I may have a little Tupelo Honey left... if it hasn't all left!

[Wade's Wines]

I went 100% Blackberry, no water, adjusted the acidity with calcium carbonate as far as it's recommended to do, then fermented... forget what yeast I settled on, but it fermented out fine. Decided to innocculate with ML bacteria. Racked yesterday and realized the MLF is still active. Harshest wine I've ever made! Acidity out the roof! But it's still young. Maybe if MLF finishes and I cold stabilize for a few weeks it will become drinkable without too much sugar. Maybe I'll be surprised! And it would be a big surprise after tasting yesterday. I won't give up hope yet, but if it doesn't change drastically I'll be turning 15 gallons of Blackberry Wine into 20 gallons of Blackberry Port.
My 2010 Blackberry I used 5.2# per gallon. Finished off the night with it. Delicious!

[Green Zeus]

Wade---Over the weekend we bottled a carboy of blackberry from 2009. It is really good, slightly harsh like blackberry can be but a little dosing of it with glycerin handled it just fine. Your blackberry shouldn't be acidic--what did you set the PH to at the primary? Our PH is about 3.4 Less than that can be too acid and you have to use more sugar to blance out the taste. Don't be afraid to add sugar---your perception of sweetness is less when your acids are high. This wine is still pretty young. We let it age a year or more. Like I said--we're just getting into our 2009 blackberry now.

I'm not a fan of MLF on fruit wines--it ruins the fruit profile.

This year, we're going to try the Maurvin B culture that Dagobob mentioned and see how it handles that malic acid on the blackberry.

[dagobob]

Wade---Over the weekend we bottled a carboy of blackberry from 2009. It is really good, slightly harsh like blackberry can be but a little dosing of it with glycerin handled it just fine. Your blackberry shouldn't be acidic--what did you set the PH to at the primary? Our PH is about 3.4 Less than that can be too acid and you have to use more sugar to blance out the taste. Don't be afraid to add sugar---your perception of sweetness is less when your acids are high. This wine is still pretty young. We let it age a year or more. Like I said--we're just getting into our 2009 blackberry now.

I'm not a fan of MLF on fruit wines--it ruins the fruit profile.

This year, we're going to try the Maurvin B culture that Dagobob mentioned and see how it handles that malic acid on the blackberry.

GreenZeus,
How much glycerin do you add to let's say 5 gallons? My blackberry is still aging nicely; but it looks like the blackberry/elderberry combo is going to be the winner. Hopefully this year I'll have enough fruit to do a 100% batch of blackberry.

[Wade's Wines]

Green Zeus,
I took readings on pH and have them on one of several legal pads of notes, never got around to transferring notes to my wine log. So not sure on the pH til I find the notes.
This one may age quite a while.
I do occasionally use glycerinein a wine. It can help.

[S Hofner]

Wade---Over the weekend we bottled a carboy of blackberry from 2009. It is really good, slightly harsh like blackberry can be but a little dosing of it with glycerin handled it just fine. Your blackberry shouldn't be acidic--what did you set the PH to at the primary? Our PH is about 3.4 Less than that can be too acid and you have to use more sugar to blance out the taste. Don't be afraid to add sugar---your perception of sweetness is less when your acids are high. This wine is still pretty young. We let it age a year or more. Like I said--we're just getting into our 2009 blackberry now.

I'm not a fan of MLF on fruit wines--it ruins the fruit profile.

This year, we're going to try the Maurvin B culture that Dagobob mentioned and see how it handles that malic acid on the blackberry.

I too am interested in the Maurvin B after a previous chat about malic in blackberry. I am still on the prowl for a commercial winery that uses Promalic so I can get a little bit of that to try as well.

[Green Zeus]

Dagobob---We use 4 tsp per 5 gallons. You can add a little more if needed--1tsp per gallon.

It's interesting that all of us are getting into that malic metabolizing culture. We've been doing some research on them and it seems some winemakers are starting to use them, in certain situations, rather than doing MLF's. I love this hobby--never a dull moment.