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This Time I Mean It - An Official Wine Room


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#1 mokadir

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:18 AM

Well, I am finally starting my "official" wine cellar.  I was planning on making it a combined wine cellar and wine work area, doing everything there except alcoholic fermentation and pressing.  

We lived through a kitchen addition this past summer.  I had them dig a few extra feet to make a regular height basement instead of a crawl space.  An extra couple thousand dollars well spent, IMO. I now have a space that is about 19.5 x 9.5 ft.  It sits outside the old house.  The "interior" wall is the old block foundation wall in an unfinished part of basement, and the 3 new sides are poured concrete with the slab floor at least 7 ft below grade.  We broke through on one corner for access.

I am trying for a passive temp controlled cellar.  The ceiling is insulated with paper faced R38 below the finished kitchen (paper towards finished kitchen above).  I am planning on an exterior door in the entrance.  There are minor water issues still to be completely diagnosed and fixed.

I haven't decided on the surfaces yet, but was considering trying to create a more natural cave or stone look, maybe with stucco type material or perhaps a faux stone facade.  Would like the convenience of a drop ceiling, but not sure of the aesthetics with what I want to do with the walls.  I may just paint the floor.  May put tile on the bottle storage section.

Still working on the layout.  Maybe 1/3 of space for bottle storage and 2/3 for work area and bulk storage.  There may be a wall or partial wall between the 2 areas. Work area will have counter, sink, etc.

1. Should I insulate the "interior" (block - see above) wall?
2. Any problem with moisture if I use a drop ceiling of some sort?
3. Suggestions for any or all of the surfaces?
4. Suggestions in general?

Pics of the space to follow.

Bob
2013 awaiting barrel: inlaws CV Bordeaux blends, friends OV Zin, Wash Syrah and Sangio, Gren/PS for Rhone blending
AGING: 2012 Chardonnay Champagne
BARRELING: Yakima Valley Pinot Noir 12, CV Zin, Lake County Montepulciano and Zin 12
Awaiting bottle: ...

#2 Hammered

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 04:23 PM

Maybe go back and re-read Cavalierhome's adventures in building his cellar/winery. He had some pretty neat features built in (and money wasn't an object it appeared.)

I'm not a big fan of dropped ceilings -- would much rather have a drywalled ceiling, even if exposed pipes were necessary.

For passive cooling, I'd insulate the outside of the top 2 feet of the foundation then leave the rest un-insulated. What are you doing for the roofing on the outside (is the kitchen over it?)
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#3 mokadir

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 07:00 PM

Money is an object here. ;) I may read it again, it's been awhile, though IIRC, it was more about the equipment than the layout, etc. I have the equipment that I need except for a nice sink. I will rebuild or purcahse any shelving or cabinetry that I need.

What is the problem with the drop ceiling? Is the appearance, or does it trap moisture in a way that you don't want it to?

The ceiling of the basement addition is the floor of the finished kitchen.

I'm trying to figure a way to insulate the top two feet, but still have the bottom 6 feet not framed or drywalled and still look not weird. I'm considering covering the cement walls with stucko or some such similar product - almost like a skim coat to make it look more like rocks/cave
Bob
2013 awaiting barrel: inlaws CV Bordeaux blends, friends OV Zin, Wash Syrah and Sangio, Gren/PS for Rhone blending
AGING: 2012 Chardonnay Champagne
BARRELING: Yakima Valley Pinot Noir 12, CV Zin, Lake County Montepulciano and Zin 12
Awaiting bottle: ...

#4 Hammered

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:39 AM


What is the problem with the drop ceiling?

Its purely a personal taste thing.

If you haven't backfilled the foundation yet, then use some 3" rigid insulation around the outside of the concrete, and extend it down 2'. If it's already backfilled, then you may want to just glue it to the inside of the concrete.

In my cellar, I wanted the walls more finished than the concrete, so I framed 2x4 walls with studs spaced 24" on center, and kept the wall an inch away from the concrete. Also, I installed some horizontal backing between the studs to make fastening the racking to the wall easier without trying to hit a stud. I just insulated the top 2' of the wall with R-19 fiberglass batts. Then I installed the drywall, leaving an 8" slot across the wall and just below the insulation and another one about 6" above the floor. I covered the slots with a product called Hardi soffit, which is a fiber cement panel that is 12" wide and has perforations along its length.

What you'll find when all's said and done with this detail, is that warm air near the ceiling will cool against the foundation wall behind the drywall and as it cools will sink in the empty wall cavity cooling more until it comes out the bottom vent. I can literally feel this convection current coming out of the bottom slot year round.
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#5 mokadir

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:35 PM

The foundation is in, backfilled and have been using the kitchen above for 3 months. I am undecided about framing the wall, but might somehow box in the top two feet for the insulation.

I have a couple of pictures of the space and have a couple of prelim sketchups for fun and comments.

Attached Files


Bob
2013 awaiting barrel: inlaws CV Bordeaux blends, friends OV Zin, Wash Syrah and Sangio, Gren/PS for Rhone blending
AGING: 2012 Chardonnay Champagne
BARRELING: Yakima Valley Pinot Noir 12, CV Zin, Lake County Montepulciano and Zin 12
Awaiting bottle: ...

#6 Wade's Wines

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 05:26 AM

Looking good!
I need something similar, but have water 3' below the surface.
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#7 Juniper Hill

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 08:08 AM

Looks great. Have you thought about a sink?

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#8 mokadir

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 03:21 PM

Yes. I didn't label the picture, but tried to show one along the one wall, just the metal color didn't show well.

I'm not sure what I'll do. I have been scouring craigslist and have found a moderately priced new commercial kitchen type double 20" basin sink that I may get. Or, I may just use a less expensive Home depot plastic one.
Bob
2013 awaiting barrel: inlaws CV Bordeaux blends, friends OV Zin, Wash Syrah and Sangio, Gren/PS for Rhone blending
AGING: 2012 Chardonnay Champagne
BARRELING: Yakima Valley Pinot Noir 12, CV Zin, Lake County Montepulciano and Zin 12
Awaiting bottle: ...

#9 D&S

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 10:56 AM

I'm not sure what I'll do. I have been scouring craigslist and have found a moderately priced new commercial kitchen type double 20" basin sink that I may get. Or, I may just use a less expensive Home depot plastic one.


I have been using a large double basin plastic sink in my 'crushpad' for about 7 years. It has been good, but I must admit I get a little nervous when propping a barrel over it to drain when rinsing it out. If I could have gotten hold of a used stainless commercial sink I would have.



#10 Greg

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 09:06 AM

Your space is almost identical to mine. I had a basement addition underneath a new kitchen. I have been wanting to finish it out as a wine cellar for a long time now but I have a big problem with how the contractors routed the ventilation ducts. They could not put them through the wall, so they run down and through the door opening that was cut in the original foundation. I'm not sure how to finish that out. It would mean I would have a very short door and have to duck down to get into the cellar. Maybe I'll post some pictures and ask you all for your sage advice.

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#11 mokadir

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 09:58 AM

Your space is almost identical to mine. I had a basement addition underneath a new kitchen. I have been wanting to finish it out as a wine cellar for a long time now but I have a big problem with how the contractors routed the ventilation ducts. They could not put them through the wall, so they run down and through the door opening that was cut in the original foundation. I'm not sure how to finish that out. It would mean I would have a very short door and have to duck down to get into the cellar. Maybe I'll post some pictures and ask you all for your sage advice.


Not to hijack my own thread, ;) but could you cut a different door in the foundation? And somehow hide the existing one?
Bob
2013 awaiting barrel: inlaws CV Bordeaux blends, friends OV Zin, Wash Syrah and Sangio, Gren/PS for Rhone blending
AGING: 2012 Chardonnay Champagne
BARRELING: Yakima Valley Pinot Noir 12, CV Zin, Lake County Montepulciano and Zin 12
Awaiting bottle: ...

#12 Hammered

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 11:32 AM

Or cut a new hole and re-route the duct?
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#13 mokadir

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 02:04 PM

Or cut a new hole and re-route the duct?

I was going to say that, but it seemed to easy. :D I figured that they did it that way for a reason?

I specifically told my contractor to keep all the HVAC, plumbing and electric up in the joist bays and he did except for one minor exception.
Bob
2013 awaiting barrel: inlaws CV Bordeaux blends, friends OV Zin, Wash Syrah and Sangio, Gren/PS for Rhone blending
AGING: 2012 Chardonnay Champagne
BARRELING: Yakima Valley Pinot Noir 12, CV Zin, Lake County Montepulciano and Zin 12
Awaiting bottle: ...

#14 mokadir

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 02:08 PM

A more expanded buildout of wine work area...

Attached Files


Bob
2013 awaiting barrel: inlaws CV Bordeaux blends, friends OV Zin, Wash Syrah and Sangio, Gren/PS for Rhone blending
AGING: 2012 Chardonnay Champagne
BARRELING: Yakima Valley Pinot Noir 12, CV Zin, Lake County Montepulciano and Zin 12
Awaiting bottle: ...

#15 Juniper Hill

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 05:26 AM

Yes. I didn't label the picture, but tried to show one along the one wall, just the metal color didn't show well.

I'm not sure what I'll do. I have been scouring craigslist and have found a moderately priced new commercial kitchen type double 20" basin sink that I may get. Or, I may just use a less expensive Home depot plastic one.

I've been using a home depot plastic laundry tub for my "winery". I think it was about $40-50. Was able to find a kitchen faucet long enough to get the carboys into the sink and wash them out easily. Not pretty but works for me.

Juniper Hill Cellars - Vinifera, Hybrid and Mead Wines

Juniper Hill Brewery - All Grain since 2012

 

Fermenting:

Elderflower Wine

Elderflower Metheglyn

Cream Ale

 

Currently Growing:

Grapes, Elderberries, Haskap, Hops





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