51 replies to this topic

[tala]

Hi Everyone!

MLF is slowing considerably in my Syrah which is currently in carboys. My chromatography kit comes in the mail today and I will test the wine to see if MLF is complete. If it's done, I will be transferring the wine into my barrel.

Here's my issue: My barrel is new/recoopered. It's a 30 gallon French Oak barrel from ReCoop in Sebastopol. I am not a big fan of heavy oak influence on wines; the reason I want to use a barrel is more for micro-oxidation & concentration benefits. I need to re-hydrate my barrel anyway, but was wondering if anyone here "conditions" their new barrels by leaving them full of water for a week, or month, or whatever so that it imparts less oak flavor on their wine.

Most of the commercial Syrah I drink only uses a very small percentage of new oak. The wine I've made is more like a cool weather Syrah and I want the oak flavor profile to work with that type of wine. I am afraid if I don't first leach out some of the new oak, the wine will not be its best.

So what should I do? Fill my barrel with sulfite water and leave it full until it's time to put wine in it? Just re-hydrate it?

My other question is regarding tap water. I assume my municipal water has some chlorine in it and I understand I should not fill my barrel with chlorinated water. Buying 30 gallons of spring water seems tedious, expensive and wasteful. How do the rest of you in major cities deal with this?

Thanks!

[TomasK]

Tala, K metabisulfite very rapidly neutralizes both chlorine and chloramine, both added to municipal water supplies, at SO2 concentrations far lower than what you likely will be adding to your barrel, so I don't think you have any worries. Someone more knowledgable than me may offer more info.

[Knucklehead]

Tala, I'm also doing a cool climate Syrah. I got mine from just south of Petaluma. Very nice. This is my second year and I used a twice used barrel for last year's Zin. At that age i got very little Oak and all of the micro-oxygenation. For this year I picked up two barrels that were 1.25 years used. The big deal is getting them from a quality source. From what I understand about Oak and a 30 gallon barrel, you want to be careful not to over oak. The less volume a barrel has, the more Oak it will impart over time. i.e. a 30 gallon barrel over a given time will impart much more oak than a 60 gallon barrel over time. A neutral barrel would be nice to have for you to move to after you have the oak you want, as well. I also used tap water to rinse my barrel last year with no issues.

[gregorio]

First, a little SO2 in tap water neutralizes Cl.

Second, you can strip quite a bit of oak from your new barrel with 10 ounces Percarbonate and filled with warm water overnight. After rinsing with water, rinse it with citric acid to neutralize the Percarbonate. By doing this, you can add any amount or style of oak you want via adjuncts.

[tala]

First, a little SO2 in tap water neutralizes Cl.

Second, you can strip quite a bit of oak from your new barrel with 10 ounces Percarbonate and filled with warm water overnight. After rinsing with water, rinse it with citric acid to neutralize the Percarbonate. By doing this, you can add any amount or style of oak you want via adjuncts.

Excellent. However, if I am rinsing with percarb & water, do I add the sulfite to that mixture? How do you neutralize the chlorine in the percarb wash? Also, what concentration do of sulfite do I need to use? I have a large jar of sodium metabisulfite, I am guessing I can use that instead of K-meta to neutralize chlorine.

Lastly, if the citric acid solution "neutralizes" the percarb, do I still need to rinse the barrel like mad as if I had just used slimy percarb alone? I've always wondered if it neutralized to the point of not needing to rinse as much, but I am skeptical so always rinse like a mad woman anyway.

Thanks Greg and everyone else too!

[tala]

Greg, one other question.

How much oak exactly will percarb for one night strip out? Would it be the equivalent of a 1 year old barrel? 6 months?

Also, is your "10 oz percarb" calculation based on the fact that it's a 30 gallon barrel?

Thanks again! My chromatography kit came in last night. The instructions are horrible but I can figure it out.

[fmestas]

Greg, one other question.

How much oak exactly will percarb for one night strip out? Would it be the equivalent of a 1 year old barrel? 6 months?

Also, is your "10 oz percarb" calculation based on the fact that it's a 30 gallon barrel?

Thanks again! My chromatography kit came in last night. The instructions are horrible but I can figure it out.

I routinely do this with my small barrels, for exactly the same reasons as you. It's pretty difficult to gauge how much oak is going to be stripped out from the barrel, so you'll really have to play it by ear... I have a 30 gallon Recoop barrel that I treated for about 24 hours (will have to check my notes) with 1g/L of percarbonate . It has my 2010 Cabernet in it, with very little oak flavor so far..

When you do the citric acid wash I would recommend soaking over night (1g/L citric acid) to make sure the solution penetrates into the wood and neutralizes all the percarbonate. I have seen posts on here where they just rinsed the barrel and had the resulting wine pH jump after filling it. Also, more than 3g/L of percarbonate can damage the wood, so keep that in mind...

Hope this helps

[gregorio]

Thanks Frank. That's pretty much how I do it too. The rinse should be as long as the soak.

As far as neutralizing Cl, I think someone posted the math a while ago. It only requires a small amount.

[fmestas]

I routinely do this with my small barrels, for exactly the same reasons as you. It's pretty difficult to gauge how much oak is going to be stripped out from the barrel, so you'll really have to play it by ear... I have a 30 gallon Recoop barrel that I treated for about 24 hours (will have to check my notes) with 1g/L of percarbonate . It has my 2010 Cabernet in it, with very little oak flavor so far..

When you do the citric acid wash I would recommend soaking over night (1g/L citric acid) to make sure the solution penetrates into the wood and neutralizes all the percarbonate. I have seen posts on here where they just rinsed the barrel and had the resulting wine pH jump after filling it. Also, more than 3g/L of percarbonate can damage the wood, so keep that in mind...

Hope this helps

I checked my notes and it turns out I soaked the 30gal barrel for 3 days with 1 g/L percarbonate

[bzac]

a recoop barell will already be much gentler than a new oak barrel of the same size so it may not need stripping
recoop states that one of their barrel is equivalent to using a year old barrel

as for the tap water , 1 tsp of kmeta is more than enough to neutralise the cl in your barrel
it will convert the cl to potassium cholride a harmless salt almost instantly

for a gentler strip , 10 tsp kemeta and 10 of citric acid and fill with hot water and leave in for 3 days would be much gentler than a percarbonate soak , which is kind of an all or nothing event.

unless you really hate oak , I would not advise a percarbonate soak on a recoop.

[gregorio]

Zac is the reaction the same with sodium meta?

[tala]

Zac is the reaction the same with sodium meta?

Yeah I've only got large quantities of sodium metabisulfite because I use it for sanitizing and it's cheaper. I can buy k-meta if needed, please let me know.

Thanks everyone for the good information! I am wondering if stripping it at all is a good idea now based on all the feedback. What would y'all do?

The wine is inky and dark and the tannins are light. pH should be around 3.5 when MLF is done. I did a whole berry fermentation so I am thinking it will be fruity but don't know if it's going to be age-worthy yet.

[surlees]

Zac is the reaction the same with sodium meta?

Instead of potassium chloride you get sodium chloride (table salt).

Fred

[gregorio]

Right. I understand the equation but what about reactivity? How easily will NaMeta react with SO2? Is it as fast and easy as KMeta?

[Crazy Run Ranch]

I buy a bag of ProxyClean (percarbonate type cleaner) every couple years for use in cleaning barrels and other equipment. I buy it from Barrel Builders in Yountville and a couple years ago, they gave me a barrel cleaning sheet. It say to use 16 oz. per barrel soaked for 24 hrs. for barrels needing a good clean. It cautions that anything over 16 oz. per barrel will strip oak flavor. Converting that dose, you get 7.5 grams/gallon or 2 grams/liter. Not saying anybody is incorrect, but based on that, 1g/L for 24 hrs. shouldn't strip flavor. I don't have enough personal experience to prove or disprove that dose. For neutralizing, I have from another source, this dose: 1/4 lbs citric per 10 gallons. That translates to 11.4 grams/gallon or 3grams/liter.
Back to Tala. I have gone a slightly different approach with 30 gallon barrels. I oaked the wine until it was where I wanted it, then stripped the barrel with a heavy dose of Proxy, citric rinsed, then put the wine back for further aging. Of course to do it this way you need another temporary home for the wine. Two beer kegs make excellent companions for a 30 gal. barrel. IMO, you are correct in your concern for over oaking a cool climate Syrah. I age my Russian River Valley Syrah in 2 year old 60 gallon barrels and get all the oak I want.