38 replies to this topic

[rawlus]

I have had a lot of experience with wine and shipping. First, the earlier posters are correct. Most FedEx offices will ask what is in the box and you will have to lie or they won't take your package. UPS on the other hand typically does not ask if the package has been packed correctly beforehand, so you do not have to lie.

Many good wine shops will also allow you to piggyback on their ability I ship wine. When I have vineyards try to ship their wines into MA for me, many of them will develop a good relationship with a wine retailer in MA, ship to them freight and then the merchant will ship to me UPS or FedEx within the state. MA has some of the worst shipping laws in the country.

Transporting wine, I have brought home multiple case of wine from as far as the west coast to the east coast. I use the 12 bottle sized shipping cases specially designed for wine, they are either styrofoam compartments or pulped paper egg carton layers... Either way, I check them into airline baggage as an extra bag for far less typically than the cost of shipping 12 heavy 750ml bottles.

Smaller loads can be safely put into checked baggage with bubble wrap. I've also used a vacuum sealer bag to protect the bag contents in the rare event of glass breakage. I have also brought home brew beer and white wine in plastic 1L PET bottles packaged in checked bags, like a pellegrino bottle. This eliminates the concerns over breakage and if it is planned to be consumed shortly after arrival, it can be packaged with minimal O2 exposure (CO2 purging the bottle and limiting headspace) and taste the same as if it had been transported in glass.

[saramc]

Right before Thanksgiving, UPS stores across the nation were given the option to sign a contract in which they agreed to ship wine. It was each individual store owner/manager's decision, so not all UPS stores will ship wine. Being in Louisville, KY (a main hub) I can stop at a satellite store or the UPS site directly and ship a package. Price will depend on where you are shipping to and whether you did the packaging or UPS does the packaging. FedEx typically runs $20 for 2-3 bottles of wine, but again, it depends on from & where you are shipping to.
MOST wineries that ship wine will sell you their "bottle formed" shipping containers, made of styrofoam of compressed paper fiber. You can order these online but unless you find a retailer that offers free shipping you end up paying a chunk just for the shipping of the shipping containers.

[gregorio]

Right before Thanksgiving, UPS stores across the nation were given the option to sign a contract in which they agreed to ship wine. It was each individual store owner/manager's decision, so not all UPS stores will ship wine. Being in Louisville, KY (a main hub) I can stop at a satellite store or the UPS site directly and ship a package. Price will depend on where you are shipping to and whether you did the packaging or UPS does the packaging. FedEx typically runs $20 for 2-3 bottles of wine, but again, it depends on from & where you are shipping to.
MOST wineries that ship wine will sell you their "bottle formed" shipping containers, made of styrofoam of compressed paper fiber. You can order these online but unless you find a retailer that offers free shipping you end up paying a chunk just for the shipping of the shipping containers.

I'm not sure where you got that information. UPS still requires all customers who ship wine be recognized by their state to do so and sign a contract. Ours was just audited and renewed last month. Read more about it here. http://www.ups.com/wine ALL carriers refuse to accept it without a contract that forces the shipper to adhere to all the myriad of state and local alcohol laws and indemnify the carrier of the tax requirements. Anything else is simply misinformation.

[Crazy Run Ranch]

I'm not sure where you got that information. UPS still requires all customers who ship wine be recognized by their state to do so and sign a contract. Ours was just audited and renewed last month. Read more about it here. http://www.ups.com/wine ALL carriers refuse to accept it without a contract that forces the shipper to adhere to all the myriad of state and local alcohol laws and indemnify the carrier of the tax requirements. Anything else is simply misinformation.

Greg, does the UPS contract allow you to ship at standard UPS shipping rates (same as for other stuff)? Around here, I can ship through the local UPS store and several businesses that ship wine w/o the contract. I assume that they act as the shipper and that's why the don't require the contract. But there is about a 20% premium for the service which gets costly.

[gregorio]

If you are shipping wine without a contract, the movement is going unreported and a law is being broken. All states restrict the movement of alcohol to authorized shippers (wineries, brokers, distributors, etc) to prevent circumvention of taxes, age restrictions, and more. They also require authorized shippers to report and or pay taxes on alcohol that enters their state. My guess is that someone has the contract and taking the tax reporting responsibility.

I have two UPS contracts; one for wine and one for non-wine. My rates are negotiated based on anticipated volume. Wine costs me much less to ship than things like corks because my volume is 100x greater.

[Calamity Cellars]

you guys are talking apples & oranges here.

saramc is talking about if a consumer buys a bottle of wine and wants to ship it across state lines to Grandma for Christmas there is nothing preventing this except that its illegal through the US Post office. It is perfectly legal through FedEx or UPS but they have internal policies that prevent it. What saramc is saying (I don't have knowledge of the accuracy of that statement) is that UPS has revisited this and given the individual stores the right to make the decision on a local level.

Greg, on the other hand, is talking about interstate commerce and selling alcohol across state lines. Both UPS & FedEx have commercial contracts that, in essence, absolve them from the liability of compliance to those laws and puts that squarely on the winery's shoulders.

[gregorio]

you guys are talking apples & oranges here.

saramc is talking about if a consumer buys a bottle of wine and wants to ship it across state lines to Grandma for Christmas there is nothing preventing this except that its illegal through the US Post office. It is perfectly legal through FedEx or UPS but they have internal policies that prevent it. What saramc is saying (I don't have knowledge of the accuracy of that statement) is that UPS has revisited this and given the individual stores the right to make the decision on a local level.

Greg, on the other hand, is talking about interstate commerce and selling alcohol across state lines. Both UPS & FedEx have commercial contracts that, in essence, absolve them from the liability of compliance to those laws and puts that squarely on the winery's shoulders.

You are close. Interstate shipping (across a state line) by individuals violates the laws of the state to which the wine is shipped and probably US ICC as well. Every state in the union has specific requirements that can only be met by a licensed entity. However, there is one specific rule that allows a non-licensed entity to ship wine across state lines. A federal law passed about 10 years ago allows wine purchased by an individual physically visiting a winery to be shipped to his home in another state. These shipments must follow the state law where he lives that allow him to legally carry the same amount of wine home himself.

Take a look at The Wine Institute or Ship Compliant for more details on what a licensed entity must do to legally ship. I do not know how all the states treat intrastate (stays inside the state) shipments but in California, it is not legal for an unlicensed entity to ship wine anywhere other than to a bona fide wine competiton. That particular part of the law came about from all of us right here at WinePress in 2008. Prior to that, it was illegal to ship anywhere without a licenese. Most states have similar laws preventing or regulating intrastate shipments.

[rawlus]

I don't really give a crap about that particular law and I don't think it would withstand SCOTUS scrutiny if challenged. Orgs like Freethegrapes work to help correct these laws which are based primarily on Distributor and Broker monopolies and do nothing to protect citizens. I sleep soundly and without regret if I ship a few bottles of wine from my home to a friend. It's not contraband for crimes sake and the amount of ink wasted trying to regulate something like this defies logic.

It is wine, beer and liquor distributors who are the enemy here. It is frankly criminal that a small winery in CA, NY or elsewhere can't ship me a case if wine a few times a year at all. This distributor-lobbied law has Been challenged and found unconstitutional in every court appearance since the challenges began, but the atty general in MA keeps appealing to a higher court hoping for a different outcome. I don't think thats coming because there is no rational explanation for such a restriction. The govt has absolutely no business in the matter. Period. End of story.

[gregorio]

You are absolutely right. The laws still create an undue burden on all but the biggest wineries and not what the SCOTUS ruling intended. However, they are still laws and need to be known so the end user can decide whether or not he wants to take the risk by breaking them.

[rawlus]

I hear you Gregorio. Didnt mean to go on a rant there. Just really tired of this state and it's unfriendly legislations.

[gregorio]

Man, you don't need to appologize! Keep it up! We all need to get out and vote these idiots out!

[saramc]

Calamity---you are correct in interpreting what I said. The topic in #1 is from a hobbyist, so I shared what my experiences as an amateur have been. I realize each state has its own set of laws, the individual UPS stores that I frequent are not asking if this is homemade wine or commercial. Interestingly enough, they cannot ship liquor other than wine..if you disclose that. My UPS store AND the hub does not charge any differently when I disclose wine vs. vinegar or marinade. Back in November when I spoke with the owner of the UPS store closest to my home, she said this was a big change for UPS across the board and it was supposed to be rolling out nationwide and again, not all UPS satellite stores have agreed to a wine contract. So, it would be a matter of finding a UPS store that has signed the wine contract. We are all responsible for policing ourselves.
Commercial shipment, rules/regulations...a different ball of wax.

A fine point was made when it was mentioned that some states do not allow your amateur wine to leave the home it was made in, other than for competition. For years the state of CA did not allow wine to leave the home, period. Yet the state held a huge amateur competition every year, violating their own law---it has since been changed. One of our wise moderators has a great article about his escapades in trying to organize a Winepress event in a state that would not allow amateur wine to be present (at least I think it was a Winepress event---it was a late, late night when I was reading).

[feffer]

Many good wine shops will also allow you to piggyback on their ability to ship wine. When I have vineyards try to ship their wines into MA for me, many of them will develop a good relationship with a wine retailer in MA, ship to them freight and then the merchant will ship to me UPS or FedEx within the state.

This sounds like a good avenue for me to pursue since I'd like to send a case or two to my brother in Wisconsin and my son in New York. I suppose if a local wine shop agrees to do this for me, I'd have to negotiate a price. I wonder what it costs them to ship a case of wine across the country by freight?

[gregorio]

This sounds like a good avenue for me to pursue since I'd like to send a case or two to my brother in Wisconsin and my son in New York. I suppose if a local wine shop agrees to do this for me, I'd have to negotiate a price. I wonder what it costs them to ship a case of wine across the country by freight?

The UPS published rate (Ground) for "ocassional" shippers to send 40lbs from San Francisco to a residence in New York is $42.06 This includes all extras (FSC, ASR, RD) but is probably $10 higher than someone who ships on the UPS "daily" rate. Ship to a business and you will save almost $5 instantly. The FedEx rate is virtually identical.

[Wade's Wines]

I've known people who just hide bottles inside a large box of something else, like bird netting. Works great!