Jump to content


Photo

Persimmons - Pounds Per Gallon?

persimmon pounds yield

  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 savaytse66

savaytse66

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 25 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Western Pennsylvania

Posted 07 October 2011 - 07:39 AM

For those of you who have successfully completed a persimmon wine, how many pounds of fruit per gallon of wine did you use? I plan to roughly follow the recipe from Jack Keller's site, and it calls for 3# per gallon. I know the general consensus is that he tends to be on the low side for many peoples' tastes, and in my experience with two different berry wines, 3# was low.

I currently have 9# prepped and in the freezer, and I have another 7# in a paper bag that I hope will ripen. If I can get 6# to ripen, that will give me 15#, and I'm hoping to make a 5 gallon batch. Thoughts? Should I just back off the total yield and shoot for 3 or 4 gallons instead?

Thanks!

#2 amikins

amikins

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Interests:cooking, knitting, pottery, and wine making apparently

Posted 10 October 2011 - 02:30 PM

I've never actually liked persimmons, but i think they would make intresting wine.

#3 Tomer1

Tomer1

    Look Out Ernest & Julio

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5410 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Israel
  • Interests:Music writing\production, cooking, cheesemaking, winemaking, piano playing, sound design.

Posted 10 October 2011 - 03:01 PM

I dont like them either, my aunt almost died from eating one. It can cause some kind of accute bowel congestionin in some people.
Not sure if its the seeds that cause it or the fruit itself.

Anyhow it doesnt pack much aroma or flavour compered to other fruits so I'd said dont use any water just plain crushed
soft ripe fruit and pectic enzyme, perhpas just a bit of water since it tends to be kind of pulpy and fiberous sometimes.
My advice may or may not be backed by actually personal expirience and should be treated as such. :)

#4 savaytse66

savaytse66

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 25 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Western Pennsylvania

Posted 10 October 2011 - 06:24 PM

Well, I started my batch today. I ended up with just shy of 15# of fruit. Actually, I still have a few in a paper bag to get a little more ripe, and once they do, I'll have 15#. According to Jack Keller's recipe, this should be enough for 5 gallons, but I'm not convinced. What I did was put the persimmons in a 5 gallon strainer bag, and separately mixed up a 1.100 sugar-water solution using 3 gallons of water and however much sugar my wine calculator spat out. I then added this to the fruit and I am proceeding as normal. I figure I have a gross must of around 4 gallons, which works out to about 3.75# of fruit per gallon. I'll keep everyone posted.

#5 amikins

amikins

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Interests:cooking, knitting, pottery, and wine making apparently

Posted 10 October 2011 - 09:45 PM

My brother dated a girl once who was of a culture that ate a lot of persimmons (dont ask me which culture, he dated a lot of different girls of a lot of different cultures before finding 'the one' and i cant remember which girlfriend it was) and i remember he saying that her mother could always pick out the sweet ones and she never could and would always end up picking the less sweet ones. so I imagine that you would want to keep that in mind when you make it.

#6 WVMountaineerJack

WVMountaineerJack

    WVMJack

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1423 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Karnage, WV
  • Interests:Growing a Wineyard full of Elderberry, Blackberry and Raspberry and Bees for Mead and Cider Apples

Posted 11 October 2011 - 09:34 AM

We made this a long time ago, one I read about as a kid and wanted to make when I found some persimmons. You are going to get a LOT of pulp and sediment, make sure you use some pectinase. Crackedcork

#7 savaytse66

savaytse66

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 25 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Western Pennsylvania

Posted 13 October 2011 - 07:34 AM

I pitched my yeast two days ago and it's going strong. I measured the SG just before adding the yeast, and I was at 1.11 which is 15% potential alcohol. The sugar-water solution I started with was 14% PA, so the persimmons must have been ripe and full of sugar, which is a good thing. Since I went slightly heavy on the fruit compared to the recipe (3.75 #/gal vs. 3 #/gal), I may top up with plain old water when I transfer to the secondary. Then again, I used Cotes de Blanc yeast, so it should die off around 14% and leave a little residual sugar. If that's the case, I'll leave it alone.

This stuff definitely has the potential to be an expansive, disastrous mess. My pulp is mostly contained in a 5 gallon strainer bag, but if it wasn't, I'm not sure my 6 gallon primary would be big enough. Also, if I lift the bag from the bucket, the liquid does not want to drain because of the jelly-like consistency of the persimmons. When I transfer, I'll probably have to let the bag drain over a colander or something while squeezing the heck out of it. It'll be interesting...

#8 waynes world winery

waynes world winery

    Veteran Wine Maker

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 252 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Williamsburg, VA
  • Interests:Wine/Beer Making
    Hunting
    Biking
    Auctions

Posted 13 October 2011 - 10:05 AM

I made this two years ago and it was so astringent I couldn't drink it. And I did freeze the fruit before making. My wild persimmon tree has a bumper crop this year, so I might try again.....
Wayne Hay,
Williamsburg, VA
<i>2012 Wines:</i>
5 gallons of Merlot; 10 gallons of Red Ale, 5 gallons of Skeeter Pee

#9 WVMountaineerJack

WVMountaineerJack

    WVMJack

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1423 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Karnage, WV
  • Interests:Growing a Wineyard full of Elderberry, Blackberry and Raspberry and Bees for Mead and Cider Apples

Posted 13 October 2011 - 10:11 AM

You will be sorry if you squeeze to much! you might be better off letting it drain and then topping up with syrup to make up for the volume lost. CC

#10 savaytse66

savaytse66

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 25 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Western Pennsylvania

Posted 14 October 2011 - 05:08 AM

You will be sorry if you squeeze to much! you might be better off letting it drain and then topping up with syrup to make up for the volume lost. CC


Because of sediment, or because of extracting too much unwanted flavor? If it's because of sediment, I was actually thinking about squeezing the bag out over a fine mesh strainer so that anything I squeeze through the bag gets caught again by the strainer. Regardless, I was thinking about adding another teaspoon or two of pectic enzyme to the secondary when I rack, just to err on the safe side.

#11 lugnutz

lugnutz

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 96 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northeast Georgia

Posted 03 November 2011 - 06:07 PM

Can you post your receipe? I have about 20 persimon trees in my yard where we just move over the summer. I was reading about making a persimmon win and it says you have to take out the seeds. If I do that there will harkly be any fruit left! I also read that if you only get 1 unripe fruit in the batch the whole lot will be undrinkable forever.They are kinda small, a little larger that a golf ball. i hate to see them waste, the trees are full. I was glad to see this thread and maybe will get more insight.

#12 bill willy

bill willy

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 35 posts

Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:05 PM

I never made wine from persimmons but was always told not to eat them before the fruit had been hit by a good frost. they were very sour to the taste before frost.This is just a little bit of talk from old timers when growing up.bill willy

#13 garlandr

garlandr

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SOUTHERN MISSOURI

Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:02 PM

I've made quite a bit of persimmon wine off and on.

I had made 50 gallons 1 year ago and it turned out good. I had 200# of pealed persimmons ( 4 # per gallon). I pealed them, because If you leave the skins,it will give you that "dry mouth feel" Without the skins and just the pulp it actually makes a drinkable wine.

If you wait alittle bit after the first frost comes the persimmon skins will slip and you will be left will the insides.

** treat it as if you were making a white wine..slow cold fermentation will keep alot of the fruity flavors, with some pinneapple and red apple flavors too.

If you left the skins on and just crushed up the fruit, it will be fine, but you will definately notice the tannins after a year or two the tannins slowly become milder. Clearing of this wine takes patients,, and sweeten to taste.


I still have friends ask for a bottle or two of the sweet stuff ......I bottled approx 275 bottles from the 50 gallons.

*** french oak chips go well with this wine too.
Attached File  PERSIMMON WINE 2010.jpg   131.16K   4 downloads

#14 saramc

saramc

    Look Out Ernest & Julio

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1433 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:suburb northeast of Louisville, Kentucky
  • Interests:If it ferments, I'm interested: WINE, yogurt, milk&water kefir, kombucha & vinegar, not big on beer but I do occassionally enjoy it. Collector of ficus carica. Enjoy reading, knitting and would like to learn how to weave.

Posted 23 December 2011 - 10:22 AM

Keep in mind there are different types of persimmons: astringent vs non-astringent OR puckered vs non-puckered.

You can be easily fooled into eating an astringent persimmon, because the astringent varieties turn orange and look ripe long before they really are. They should be eaten only when completely jelly soft to the touch. These are the persimmons that are common in the US (Diospyros virginiana), and then the Japanase/Chinese/Russian cultivars: hybrid-Nikita's Gift, hybrid-Rosseyanka, Kaki, Hachiya, Saijo, Sheng, and Tamopan just to name a few. Of the astringent, Hachiya is the most common in retail stores, it is usually the size of a baseball and heart shaped. A few tricks with the astringent variety are: put 1/2 teaspoon clear alcohol (vodka, pure grain,etc) at the stem and then place them in large paper bag with an apple...check daily. Others say to place the astringent variety in the freezer overnight and it will be sweeter the next day. The astringent variety is indeed ripe when the skin is wrinkled, will look like a tomato that is on its way to dehydrating, all shriveled, etc. You can literally scrape the fruit PULP off the skin. If you try to eat one that is this ripe, I recommend eating it with a bib on or over the sink, or both! If you get any pucker--your persimmon is not ripe enough. The astringent variety are usually sweeter, richer and juicier. Typically used like pumpkin puree in cooking. If used for wine a double layer of nylon pantyhose works wonderfully!

Then there are non-astringent persimmons usually cultivars from China and Japan and these may be eaten RIGHT OFF THE TREE while still firm and crisp OR you can allow them to get softer..your choice. Commonly seen in the store is HANA FUYU (label will say FUYU), looks like a flat yellow-orange tomato, if you check you will notice the fruit actually has 4 quadrants, look at the bottom--you will see creases; also, GwangYang, Ichi Ki Kei Jiro, Imoto, Izu, Jiro, Matsumoto, TamKan, The non-astringent types are crispy, mellower and more sugarcane or cantaloupe-flavored. When used in cooking while the fruit is firm treat like an apple, then the softer the fruit gets the more inventive your cooking can become. The Hana Fuyu is my absolute favorite and I can eat one leaving just the stem, the skin is delicious, there is NO core, and rarely do you see a seed--if you do they are usually like a dark sesame seed & I usually find 3 or 4 IF I AM LOOKING FOR THEM.

Both types: astringent and non-astringent are best harvested after the first freeze and during the light of the moon when their skin is speckled with grey. (per old wives and an article a long time ago in Farmer's Almanac). I know people who swear this is true. I will let you know one day---will be planting my own FUYU in the Spring.

Check craigslist NOW for persimmons because they are ripe in California, Georgia, Alabama and the Carolinas...they are finishing their harvests, though some varieties of persimmon can hang on the trees until February! The FUYU and Hachiya are in area markets and are typically 50cents to $1 each in my area.

~Sara
~Sara~ Made 71.5 gallons of wine in 2011--my first year in winemaking & I loved every minute of it!!
Amateur Winemakers Of Louisville: http://www.facebook....37454883025144/




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users