I've considered purchasing a vacuum pump such as this one: http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html (appears nearly identical to one sold by Valley Vintner) but am concerned with the expected oil mist-related discharge from the these type devices. I've not heard much about the negative consequences and conclusions on this forum despite reviews/warnings like this http://www.udel.edu/ehs/programupdate0509.pdf.
Are those using this setup attaching exhaust filters, providing specialized venting or other remedy or do you feel its really a non-issue? At this point, I'm thinking an oilless pump may be the way to go for our small, garage-based winemaking club. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Ken
Concerns About Oil-based Vacuum Pump
Started by
kenp
, May 02 2011 11:34 AM
11 replies to this topic
#2
Bert1
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Posted 02 May 2011 - 11:46 AM
I brought one home from school to use. The oil feel apart real fast, I am not for sure if this is due to fumes or just old oil.
I now have an oil free pump.
Bert
I now have an oil free pump.
Bert
#3
Doyle
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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:10 PM
I tried an oil pump at one time but was very unhappy with the mess and oil that comes out of them. I use an oil free diaphragm pump.
#4
poni
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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:24 PM
I use an oil pump and its fine, I just follow this protocol developed by a Kipper-Feet, follow this link and check it out. (if the link doesn't work let me know..) I've been meaning to share it but haven't got around to it, i guess this would be the perfect time.
Some pumps have an "anti-flowback device" preventing oil from tainting the wine but they are crap as mine is... read on, follow and you'll be fine!
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.4&thid=12e111456a16e579&mt=application/msword&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D9014fd20ef%26view%3Datt%26th%3D12e111456a16e579%26attid%3D0.4%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbRrXd9t0mkZ0Pv5nC6Rk8usnIYb3g&pli=1
Some pumps have an "anti-flowback device" preventing oil from tainting the wine but they are crap as mine is... read on, follow and you'll be fine!
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.4&thid=12e111456a16e579&mt=application/msword&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D9014fd20ef%26view%3Datt%26th%3D12e111456a16e579%26attid%3D0.4%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbRrXd9t0mkZ0Pv5nC6Rk8usnIYb3g&pli=1
#5
poni
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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:33 PM
One thing is, they do put off some oily fumes that don't smell very good, it won't hurt the wine but smells bad all the same, some people use a small fan to blow the fumes away fomr their work area and some put the pump outside while working with wine inside. I have one and i'm not buying another one! Hope this helps
#6
kenp
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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:58 PM
I use an oil pump and its fine, I just follow this protocol developed by a Kipper-Feet, follow this link and check it out. (if the link doesn't work let me know..) I've been meaning to share it but haven't got around to it, i guess this would be the perfect time.
Some pumps have an "anti-flowback device" preventing oil from tainting the wine but they are crap as mine is... read on, follow and you'll be fine!
https://docs.google....8usnIYb3g&pli=1
Appreciate the replies. I wasn't able to open the linked .pdf, even with my active gmail/document account. Can you post an alternative link or attachment?
#7
rpage53
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Posted 02 May 2011 - 01:09 PM
I had the same problem. Google Docs frustrates me almost every time for sharing but works fine as a personal archive.Appreciate the replies. I wasn't able to open the linked .pdf, even with my active gmail/document account. Can you post an alternative link or attachment?
Rick.
#8
poni
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Posted 02 May 2011 - 01:14 PM
Crap, I will see what I can do.. sorry
#9
Hammered
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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:57 PM
I have a Rok-r pump that is a piston driven pump. It is oil-less. I hadn't heard that about ones that need oiling. Good to know.
#10
poni
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Posted 02 May 2011 - 06:40 PM
Here the Purging Protocol By Kipper Feet
Purging Protocol
This protocol has been developed for use with the oil-based rotary-vane vacuum pumps typical of those manufactured by US General and sold by Harbor Freight when degassing wine under vacuum.
These types of rotary-vane vacuum pumps use petroleum based, high vacuum oil in their sumps and rotor cartridges for the purpose of sealing, lubrication and cooling. When used in HVAC applications, the hydroscopic oil is used to absorb and remove moisture from the vacuum pump.
It has been established that these inexpensive, high-performing 75 micron and 25 micron vacuum pumps are not protected by any check-valve in the suction manifold that would prevent oil vapour and oil from being sucked out of the pump and backwards into the wine being degassed under vacuum.
The purpose of this protocol is to minimize the risk of the wine being contaminated by oil.
This protocol is primarily intended for use when vacuum degassing wine but it may be similarly applied to the vacuum transfer and to the vacuum racking of wine.
Plumbing
It is common practice for the suction tube from the vacuum pump to be connected to the partially full wine carboy through an intermediate overflow canister.
It is common practice for the suction tube coming from the over-flow canister to be connected to the carboy by means of a drilled rubber-bung.
It is the intent of this Purging Protocol to modify these common plumbing practices, in order to provide for continuous system purging, as follows:
1) The suction tube entering the drilled rubber-bung in the wine carboy must be cut just downstream of the rubber-bung and fitted with a tee-piece.
2) The protruding leg of the tee-piece must be fitted with an adjustable shut-off ball or needle valve that can draw in air from the atmosphere. Call this adjustable valve the purging valve.
3) The suction tube continues from the tee-piece back to the overflow canister but must be fitted with a shut-off valve of any type. Call this shut-off valve the emergency shut-off valve.
4) The plumbing in the interior of the overflow canister and that which continues to the suction manifold on the vacuum pump remains as before.
Procedures
It has been established that, when the entire system is in vacuum equilibrium throughout, it is possible for oil vapour that arises in the vacuum pump to migrate backwards through the unprotected suction manifold into the plumbing, through the overflow canister and into the wine in the carboy.
This situation will typically arise when the vacuum pump is turned off and the carboy is still hooked up to it. The residual vacuum in the carboy will draw air, in through the vacuum pump picking up the oil contaminants in it, backwards into itself.
The intent of the Procedures described in this Protocol is to ensure that whenever the carboy is hooked up to the vacuum pump there will always be a purging gas-flow from the carboy towards the vacuum pump. In the context of this Protocol, gas means air, carbon dioxide or oil vapour.
The intent is to prevent any situation arising at any time in which there is:
aNo purging downstream gas-flow in the system
B. A contaminating upstream gas-flow from the vacuum pump towards the carboy.
Starting Procedure
1) Hook up the entire system but do not insert the rubber-bung into the carboy.
2) Ensure that purging valve is fully open.
3) Ensure that the emergency shut-off valve is fully open.
4) Start the vacuum pump. You will hear the hiss of air as it is sucked in through the open purging valve and through the open end of the suction tube passing through the rubber-bung.
5) Allow the vacuum pump to freely suck in and draw air through the plumbing and through the overflow canister for at least 15 seconds to ensure that the system is purged of any oil contaminants.
6) Insert the rubber-bung into the mouth of the carboy. You will hear the hiss of air as it continues to be sucked in through the open purging valve.
7) Slowly close the purging valve until an increasing vacuum is pulled in the headspace of the carboy.
The purging valve can be used to adjust the vacuum so that the desired amount of degassing bubble activity is evident. To increase the vacuum in the headspace, close the purging valve some more. To reduce the vacuum in the headspace, open the purging valve some more.
IMPORTANT NOTE:
To ensure that the purging gas-flow in the system is always in the direction of carboy towards vacuum pump and that the system is always being purged of oil contaminants, never close the purging valve fully.
This applies most definitely to the unlikely event in which there appears to be no more carbon dioxide bubbling out of the wine.
A purging valve that is always partially open will ensure that the vacuum in the carboy is always less than the vacuum in the overflow canister and in the vacuum pump itself. The gas will flow from lowest vacuum to highest vacuum. This will ensure that the gas-flow is always from the carboy (low vacuum) towards the overflow canister (medium vacuum) and then towards the vacuum pump (highest vacuum).
Stopping Procedure
IMPORTANT NOTE: Do not turn off the vacuum pump until very last.
1) Open the purging valve fully to relieve as much of the vacuum in the carboy as possible. You will hear the hiss of the air as it is sucked in through the open purging valve. Allow the vacuum pump to draw in the air for at least 15 seconds to purge the system of oil vapours if any.
2) Pry the rubber-bung loose and remove it from the carboy. You will again hear the hiss of air as it is sucked in through the open purging valve and through the open end of the suction tube passing through the rubber-bung.
3) Seal the carboy with an appropriate stopper.
4) Turn the vacuum pump off.
Emergency Actions
If during the vacuum degassing operation you observe oil vapour condensing anywhere in the system or oil beginning to emerge from the suction manifold on the pump:
1) Immediately close the emergency shut-off valve between the overflow canister and the carboy.
2) Open the purging valve fully and wait until the vacuum in the carboy is completely relieved.
3) Pry the rubber-bung loose and remove it from the carboy.
4) Immediately seal the carboy with an appropriate stopper.
5) Open the emergency shut-off valve between the overflow canister and the rubber-bung. This will allow the free flow of air into the system and enable the vacuum pump to draw the oil vapour and oil back into itself. Allow sufficient time to recover as much of the oil contaminants as possible.
6) Turn the vacuum pump off.
Precautionary Actions
1) Wash all oil contaminated equipment with a suitable detergent, rinse and dry.
Here is the regulator valve i made for racking, and one for degassing...
http://i596.photobuc...ll/IMAG0010.jpg
http://i596.photobuc...ll/IMAG0012.jpg
I guess i could have got the oil-less pump, but i think they are more pricey than the oil pumps. So with the guidance of kipper-feet he made it ok for me to use the pump without worry as long as i follow the protocol.
I don't use a gauge either, i just use the regulators i built to regulate the vacuum being applied. Any suggestions are welcome, but i think i have a pretty good set up that works for my needs... Those regulators are kind of frankensteined (many different parts) and i am kind of embarrassed to show them, BUT they work, so whatever!
Hope this helps!
Purging Protocol
This protocol has been developed for use with the oil-based rotary-vane vacuum pumps typical of those manufactured by US General and sold by Harbor Freight when degassing wine under vacuum.
These types of rotary-vane vacuum pumps use petroleum based, high vacuum oil in their sumps and rotor cartridges for the purpose of sealing, lubrication and cooling. When used in HVAC applications, the hydroscopic oil is used to absorb and remove moisture from the vacuum pump.
It has been established that these inexpensive, high-performing 75 micron and 25 micron vacuum pumps are not protected by any check-valve in the suction manifold that would prevent oil vapour and oil from being sucked out of the pump and backwards into the wine being degassed under vacuum.
The purpose of this protocol is to minimize the risk of the wine being contaminated by oil.
This protocol is primarily intended for use when vacuum degassing wine but it may be similarly applied to the vacuum transfer and to the vacuum racking of wine.
Plumbing
It is common practice for the suction tube from the vacuum pump to be connected to the partially full wine carboy through an intermediate overflow canister.
It is common practice for the suction tube coming from the over-flow canister to be connected to the carboy by means of a drilled rubber-bung.
It is the intent of this Purging Protocol to modify these common plumbing practices, in order to provide for continuous system purging, as follows:
1) The suction tube entering the drilled rubber-bung in the wine carboy must be cut just downstream of the rubber-bung and fitted with a tee-piece.
2) The protruding leg of the tee-piece must be fitted with an adjustable shut-off ball or needle valve that can draw in air from the atmosphere. Call this adjustable valve the purging valve.
3) The suction tube continues from the tee-piece back to the overflow canister but must be fitted with a shut-off valve of any type. Call this shut-off valve the emergency shut-off valve.
4) The plumbing in the interior of the overflow canister and that which continues to the suction manifold on the vacuum pump remains as before.
Procedures
It has been established that, when the entire system is in vacuum equilibrium throughout, it is possible for oil vapour that arises in the vacuum pump to migrate backwards through the unprotected suction manifold into the plumbing, through the overflow canister and into the wine in the carboy.
This situation will typically arise when the vacuum pump is turned off and the carboy is still hooked up to it. The residual vacuum in the carboy will draw air, in through the vacuum pump picking up the oil contaminants in it, backwards into itself.
The intent of the Procedures described in this Protocol is to ensure that whenever the carboy is hooked up to the vacuum pump there will always be a purging gas-flow from the carboy towards the vacuum pump. In the context of this Protocol, gas means air, carbon dioxide or oil vapour.
The intent is to prevent any situation arising at any time in which there is:
aNo purging downstream gas-flow in the system
B. A contaminating upstream gas-flow from the vacuum pump towards the carboy.
Starting Procedure
1) Hook up the entire system but do not insert the rubber-bung into the carboy.
2) Ensure that purging valve is fully open.
3) Ensure that the emergency shut-off valve is fully open.
4) Start the vacuum pump. You will hear the hiss of air as it is sucked in through the open purging valve and through the open end of the suction tube passing through the rubber-bung.
5) Allow the vacuum pump to freely suck in and draw air through the plumbing and through the overflow canister for at least 15 seconds to ensure that the system is purged of any oil contaminants.
6) Insert the rubber-bung into the mouth of the carboy. You will hear the hiss of air as it continues to be sucked in through the open purging valve.
7) Slowly close the purging valve until an increasing vacuum is pulled in the headspace of the carboy.
The purging valve can be used to adjust the vacuum so that the desired amount of degassing bubble activity is evident. To increase the vacuum in the headspace, close the purging valve some more. To reduce the vacuum in the headspace, open the purging valve some more.
IMPORTANT NOTE:
To ensure that the purging gas-flow in the system is always in the direction of carboy towards vacuum pump and that the system is always being purged of oil contaminants, never close the purging valve fully.
This applies most definitely to the unlikely event in which there appears to be no more carbon dioxide bubbling out of the wine.
A purging valve that is always partially open will ensure that the vacuum in the carboy is always less than the vacuum in the overflow canister and in the vacuum pump itself. The gas will flow from lowest vacuum to highest vacuum. This will ensure that the gas-flow is always from the carboy (low vacuum) towards the overflow canister (medium vacuum) and then towards the vacuum pump (highest vacuum).
Stopping Procedure
IMPORTANT NOTE: Do not turn off the vacuum pump until very last.
1) Open the purging valve fully to relieve as much of the vacuum in the carboy as possible. You will hear the hiss of the air as it is sucked in through the open purging valve. Allow the vacuum pump to draw in the air for at least 15 seconds to purge the system of oil vapours if any.
2) Pry the rubber-bung loose and remove it from the carboy. You will again hear the hiss of air as it is sucked in through the open purging valve and through the open end of the suction tube passing through the rubber-bung.
3) Seal the carboy with an appropriate stopper.
4) Turn the vacuum pump off.
Emergency Actions
If during the vacuum degassing operation you observe oil vapour condensing anywhere in the system or oil beginning to emerge from the suction manifold on the pump:
1) Immediately close the emergency shut-off valve between the overflow canister and the carboy.
2) Open the purging valve fully and wait until the vacuum in the carboy is completely relieved.
3) Pry the rubber-bung loose and remove it from the carboy.
4) Immediately seal the carboy with an appropriate stopper.
5) Open the emergency shut-off valve between the overflow canister and the rubber-bung. This will allow the free flow of air into the system and enable the vacuum pump to draw the oil vapour and oil back into itself. Allow sufficient time to recover as much of the oil contaminants as possible.
6) Turn the vacuum pump off.
Precautionary Actions
1) Wash all oil contaminated equipment with a suitable detergent, rinse and dry.
Here is the regulator valve i made for racking, and one for degassing...
http://i596.photobuc...ll/IMAG0010.jpg
http://i596.photobuc...ll/IMAG0012.jpg
I guess i could have got the oil-less pump, but i think they are more pricey than the oil pumps. So with the guidance of kipper-feet he made it ok for me to use the pump without worry as long as i follow the protocol.
I don't use a gauge either, i just use the regulators i built to regulate the vacuum being applied. Any suggestions are welcome, but i think i have a pretty good set up that works for my needs... Those regulators are kind of frankensteined (many different parts) and i am kind of embarrassed to show them, BUT they work, so whatever!
Hope this helps!
#11
fmestas
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Posted 19 October 2011 - 02:50 PM
So I just bought the harbor freight pump and found this thread... I'm wondering why you couldn't just use a check valve like the one below between the pump and the overflow container? The point is to prevent back flow from the pump, right? Or am I missing something important?
Frank Mestas
www.elsranxos.com
"The absence of defects is not the presence of virtues" - Sean Thackrey
www.elsranxos.com
"The absence of defects is not the presence of virtues" - Sean Thackrey
#12
Cibo
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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:11 PM
I take a wide canning jar drill 2 holes in the top get 2 peaces of racking cane one alittle longer then the other and attach on side to the vaccume pump the other goes to the carboy and I put the pump a little distance away if there is any moisture in the oil it will smoke like hell!
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