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Correct Size Bladder Press For My Use


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#1 WineMan2008

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 05:03 PM

Guys,

Was wondering what size bladder press I would need for 1000 lbs of grapes (28 cases of grapes). If I bought a 160L press, the rep from Gino Pinto, who sells Zambelli Brand, said that I would have to run it through twice. I thought the 90L did 15 cases of fermented must and the 160L could handle 26 - 28 cases. I'm thinking about the all stainless steel Speidel bladder press.

Steve

#2 Doyle

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 06:08 PM

I have an 80 liter Bladder press and have pressed a ton of grapes through it. With a half ton it is about 3 loads and the takes about an hour plus cleanup. A full ton is about 6 loads and just a little over 90 minutes. Typically there are two or three of us. The 80 liter basket needs to be lifted off of the press so that is not a 1 man job. The 160 liter has a tilt feature but you would still want at least two people working.

#3 WineMan2008

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 08:17 PM

I have an 80 liter Bladder press and have pressed a ton of grapes through it. With a half ton it is about 3 loads and the takes about an hour plus cleanup. A full ton is about 6 loads and just a little over 90 minutes. Typically there are two or three of us. The 80 liter basket needs to be lifted off of the press so that is not a 1 man job. The 160 liter has a tilt feature but you would still want at least two people working.

Doyle,

So do you fill it, press, empty the press and fill it up again? Or do you leave the pressed skins in the press and add more?

Steve

#4 Hammered

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 09:00 AM

Doyle,

So do you fill it, press, empty the press and fill it up again? Or do you leave the pressed skins in the press and add more?

Steve

Typically you empty the bladder press between loads so you don't extract too much of the harsh tannins. Keep in mind that you need to fill the press pretty full so if you plan on doing any smaller batches it would be better to have a smaller press than a larger one.

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#5 Crazy Run Ranch

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 01:09 PM

There's no correct size. For 1000 lbs., a 40L would be fine, probably take 5 press loads. I think what the person was trying to tell you about the 160L was that it wouldn't do all 1000 lbs. in one load but there would be too little left over for a second pressing. So you would need to save back some pressing from the first load to fill the press the second time. As Steve says above, a bladder press needs to be filled before pressing or it will deform the bladder during pressing, stressing and risking breaking it. A 40L would be better if you ever plan to press by yourself. I have an 80L and sometimes lift it off myself. But its a bit of a grunt and I'm a pretty large person.

#6 Doyle

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 02:36 PM

Typically I do as Steve mentioned and fill the press and then press that off, empty the press and start again. When you get to the end and have a small load, you can partially fill the bladder before adding the load and that makes it easy to press a smaller quantity evenly. If you didn't leave enough room in the press then you just let some water out and add the additional must.

#7 WineMan2008

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 06:41 PM

Typically I do as Steve mentioned and fill the press and then press that off, empty the press and start again. When you get to the end and have a small load, you can partially fill the bladder before adding the load and that makes it easy to press a smaller quantity evenly. If you didn't leave enough room in the press then you just let some water out and add the additional must.

I think the 90L Speidel would be best because I will never make less than a 15 case vat, and if I make a 28 case vat I will load, press, unload, and repeat the process. I hope this isn't a stupid question, How does one determine the end of pressing? By taste or just press till it runs dry? 11doh.gif. Who has the best prices on the Speidel presses?

Steve
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#8 ensmeyer

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:39 AM

I think the 90L Speidel would be best because I will never make less than a 15 case vat, and if I make a 28 case vat I will load, press, unload, and repeat the process. I hope this isn't a stupid question, How does one determine the end of pressing? By taste or just press till it runs dry? 11doh.gif. Who has the best prices on the Speidel presses?

Steve

I have not seen the Speidel units for sale by any one other than More Wine. 90l is normally $1600.00, They are included in the MW preseason sale for $1260.00 + freight, delivered in August. I picked up a 90liter bladder press by luck on their "deal of the week" back in February for just $1200.00. The shipping to NY was 277.00! Still I thought it a pretty good deal as it is a nice unit.

If you could find another brand locally, you might make out better by saving a bundle on the shipping. But most other mfrs make an 80l vs 90l.

I also have a 20liter bladder press for smaller batches. The bladder press is very gentle pressing the skins, so I usually continue to press until the juice ceases to flow.

All the Best,
Eric

#9 Doyle

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 10:42 AM

Eric, As gentle as the bladder press is, turning the pressure up at the end to 2 or 3 bars will really deliver some tannic juice. You might want to go a little more by taste as you will really notice the difference in the final press juice.

#10 WineMan2008

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 12:44 PM

Eric, As gentle as the bladder press is, turning the pressure up at the end to 2 or 3 bars will really deliver some tannic juice. You might want to go a little more by taste as you will really notice the difference in the final press juice.

Doyle,

Usually with my #45 ratchet press, we press, then break it down, re-load and press. I have friends who refuse to leave a drop of wine behind.I think when it all gets blended at the end in the barrel, its all OK. I just don't want to make a mistake and purchase the wrong size press. This year the plan is to crush all the grapes in one day, 4 - 28 case vats, and 3 - 15 case vats. We don't want to drag out the wine making season over 3 months, so we have decided to purchase all our grapes at seasons peak when there is a lot to choose from. So should it be a 90L or 180L? smileyhelp.gif

#11 Purple Grin Winery

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 04:04 PM

If you're pressing with friends and family, the time is usually enjoyed.

Last year we did 4,000 pounds in an 80l bladder press, and it took five of us (starting almost sober) about five hours from setup to finish cleanup.

I think if the press was twice as big, it would only save an hour or so. Cleanup is always when you're most tired!

If you are doing up to one ton, I'd recommend a 40 and a good attitude. It's a moment that only happens once a year. I make certain I enjoy it.

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#12 Crazy Run Ranch

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 08:56 PM

Doyle,

Usually with my #45 ratchet press, we press, then break it down, re-load and press. I have friends who refuse to leave a drop of wine behind.I think when it all gets blended at the end in the barrel, its all OK. I just don't want to make a mistake and purchase the wrong size press. This year the plan is to crush all the grapes in one day, 4 - 28 case vats, and 3 - 15 case vats. We don't want to drag out the wine making season over 3 months, so we have decided to purchase all our grapes at seasons peak when there is a lot to choose from. So should it be a 90L or 180L? smileyhelp.gif


Like Doyle, I believe squeezing that last quart of juice out is going to be pretty tannic stuff. The control and repeatability of the bladder press are huge advantages, its seem a shame not to use and just squeeze every last drop from the wine.
Your volume is confusing. You said 1000lbs to start with. Most of us on this thread make wine from bulk grapes. Not sure what 28 cases is in weight. I would size the press for the smallest lot size, not the largest. If you can't fill it, you can't really use it. If you have more, just keep filling and refilling until your done. With the larger press, you are moving the same amount of grapes, just saving the inflation/deflation time which isn't that much. I agree with Scott that up to a ton, the 40 should be fine. For 1.5 - 3 tons per year, 80 or 90 liter press. For more with larger lots then maybe go 160L. With an 80L press, I have pressed 1 ton of fruit in 1 evening after working all day by myself. I was tired but its possible.
Even if you source all your fruit on the same day (which seems strange), crush and innoculate at the same time, it seem unlikely that 7 fermentations are going to be ready for pressing on the same day.

#13 Calamity Cellars

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 11:00 PM

I have an 80L bladder press and feel that is good for a full ton of red and 1/2 ton of white. Anything more than that and the day is just too long. With the Whites there is such a long wait time while the juice drains out of the pressed grapes. I have a friend that makes more than that and has a unique solution. Instead of buying a press larger than the 80l he bought a second 80l press. This raises his actual press size to 160l but he doesn't have the down time of waiting for the juice to run off. While press #1 is draining the people doing the pressing are cleaning & loading press #2. This raises his effective press size to something in excess of what could be handled with a 160l press without incurring the high cost.

As a side note, the last two reds I pressed, a Cab Sauv & a Syrah, I did the whole taste it as I increased bladder pressure and found that I ended up pressing at max pressure. Sure saved a lot of time for the next press load since I could just crank it up and walk away.

Alan Holtzheimer


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#14 WineMan2008

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 01:11 PM

Like Doyle, I believe squeezing that last quart of juice out is going to be pretty tannic stuff. The control and repeatability of the bladder press are huge advantages, its seem a shame not to use and just squeeze every last drop from the wine.
Your volume is confusing. You said 1000lbs to start with. Most of us on this thread make wine from bulk grapes. Not sure what 28 cases is in weight. I would size the press for the smallest lot size, not the largest. If you can't fill it, you can't really use it. If you have more, just keep filling and refilling until your done. With the larger press, you are moving the same amount of grapes, just saving the inflation/deflation time which isn't that much. I agree with Scott that up to a ton, the 40 should be fine. For 1.5 - 3 tons per year, 80 or 90 liter press. For more with larger lots then maybe go 160L. With an 80L press, I have pressed 1 ton of fruit in 1 evening after working all day by myself. I was tired but its possible.
Even if you source all your fruit on the same day (which seems strange), crush and innoculate at the same time, it seem unlikely that 7 fermentations are going to be ready for pressing on the same day.

Sorry if I wasn't so clear. For example, 28 cases x 36 lbs = 1008 lbs. I think I will go with the Speidel 90 liter. I was probably dreaming that 7 ferments would finish at the same time, but it's nice to dream.

#15 WineMan2008

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 04:58 PM

I have an 80L bladder press and feel that is good for a full ton of red and 1/2 ton of white. Anything more than that and the day is just too long. With the Whites there is such a long wait time while the juice drains out of the pressed grapes. I have a friend that makes more than that and has a unique solution. Instead of buying a press larger than the 80l he bought a second 80l press. This raises his actual press size to 160l but he doesn't have the down time of waiting for the juice to run off. While press #1 is draining the people doing the pressing are cleaning & loading press #2. This raises his effective press size to something in excess of what could be handled with a 160l press without incurring the high cost.

As a side note, the last two reds I pressed, a Cab Sauv & a Syrah, I did the whole taste it as I increased bladder pressure and found that I ended up pressing at max pressure. Sure saved a lot of time for the next press load since I could just crank it up and walk away.

So, would you say a Bladder press is faster or slower than a ratchet press? I know it is less strenuous 11doh.gif

Steve




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