Jump to content


Photo

Using Juices With Preservatives


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 cknowlto

cknowlto

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 661 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bloomfield, NY
  • Interests:Metalworking
    Woodworking
    Software
    CNC

Posted 10 November 2010 - 08:27 AM

I grabbed two bottles of lemon juice to try a one gallon batch of SP. Unfortunately when I got them home I saw that they have sulfites AND sorbate in them. Can they be used? They are pretty much exactly what the recipie calls for.

Also, are there processes that one can use to remove most or all of the sorbate from commercial juices?

I have been itching to try some small batches of fruity "Wines" that the wife might like. Her favorite mixed drink is "S e x on the Beach" which is all fruit juices. It might be cool to make a batch of wine that follows that drink recipie, but getting things like cranberry juice and pineapple juice without preservatives is going to be a challenge. I think I will have to use real peach fruit for the peach juice.

I thought about aeration and I read a note somewhere in here that someone uses excessive agitation (which probably induces some pretty good aeration)

Any thoughts?

Edit: LOL! the BBS software edited out the word S e x"
The Engineering Section
Knowlton Acres

#2 Wade's Wines

Wade's Wines

    Colonel Wade, Bottle Brigade, 3rd Glass

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16021 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee, 70mi. South of Nashville
  • Interests:Winemaking
    Auctioneering
    Woodcarving
    Brewing
    Kayaking

Posted 10 November 2010 - 09:23 AM

I think MAYBE if you got the blend going with juices without sorbate, then slowly added the sorbated juices to the very active ferment, it would work. Sorbate doesn't kill yeast, it just keeps it from reproducing. So once the ferment was rumbling you might pull it off. But it's a gamble.
The sulfites are at a dose for that amount of juice, and I don't think they'd be as much of a problem, fed the way just mentioned.
On the other hand, it may be worth returning them to the store and looking for another product... or saving them for things like fish and lemon merange pie. :)
Tennessee Auctioneer, makin' wines and growin' vines!
The Best of Times is Now! :0)

#3 mute dog

mute dog

    Veteran Wine Maker

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 290 posts
  • Location:Milwaukee, WI
  • Interests:internet, web design, design, wine making, DIY, travelling

Posted 10 November 2010 - 09:33 AM

all lemon juice will have preservatives in them, that's why the skeeter pee recipe calls for excessive agitation (for oxidation, I believe) of the must prior to pitching the yeast slurry from a previous batch (AKA gigantic starter).

I don't see why you couldn't use the same technique on other juices that have preservatives in them.
Matt
My blog: updates on my wine making and other stuff going on in my life...

#4 cutter

cutter

    Addicted to WinePress & Skeeter Pee

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2218 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Topeka, Kansas
  • Interests:Wine Making
    Wine Drinking
    Music Listening
    Reading

Posted 10 November 2010 - 12:39 PM

When making Skeeter Pee, I whip the lemon and/or lime juice must with a paint stirer to work O2 into the must. The O2 binds up most of the preservatives allowing the yeast to thrive and convert sugar to alcohol and CO2. I've never had a problem getting fermentation to start.
Juan

In order to know virtue, we must first acquaint ourselves with vice.
I raise my glass to ideas lost, on foggy nights, when no one listened - Jack Keller

#5 cknowlto

cknowlto

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 661 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bloomfield, NY
  • Interests:Metalworking
    Woodworking
    Software
    CNC

Posted 10 November 2010 - 05:45 PM

Sounds like a plan. I will make up a 1G batch of SP this weekend then. Hopefully I can apply some lessons learned and this will be a simple batch. Now to figure out a warm enough place to ferment it in without annoying the wife. smileytoast.gif
The Engineering Section
Knowlton Acres

#6 Green Zeus

Green Zeus

    Look Out Ernest & Julio

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1874 posts
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 11 November 2010 - 07:15 AM

Here's something else that I just thought of. Have you ever checked out Alexander's concentrates? They have all kinds of stuff including a number of fruit concentrates. It's a good way to make wines when fruit is out of season or may be unavailable to you even when it IS in season.

To heat up your SP, you could set it in a small room or enclosed area and put a space heater in it.

#7 cknowlto

cknowlto

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 661 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bloomfield, NY
  • Interests:Metalworking
    Woodworking
    Software
    CNC

Posted 11 November 2010 - 09:54 AM

Here's something else that I just thought of. Have you ever checked out Alexander's concentrates? They have all kinds of stuff including a number of fruit concentrates. It's a good way to make wines when fruit is out of season or may be unavailable to you even when it IS in season.

To heat up your SP, you could set it in a small room or enclosed area and put a space heater in it.


I just looked up the concentrates. They seem rather expensive and they come in steel cans. I try and keep ALL metal out of my processes if I can as I seem to be able to pick up these flavors more than most other people (I HATE V8 in the aluminum or steel cans :angry: )

I am going to try a 1 Gallon batch of apple cherry from Welches frozen concentrates tonight and use the lees from that for my SP batch, which, according to Lon's recommendation, I will make 5 gallon sized. Now I need another 5G carboy :-(

Thanks for the space heater idea, I can pick up a cheap small thermostat controlled electric heater for a couple bucks and try that. ;)
The Engineering Section
Knowlton Acres

#8 cknowlto

cknowlto

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 661 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bloomfield, NY
  • Interests:Metalworking
    Woodworking
    Software
    CNC

Posted 11 November 2010 - 05:59 PM

lol! I got home and started digging and found a little space heater that my sister-in-law gave me because it was "broken" Well it is broken, the fan did not work and only one of the two heating elements heats up, but some oil fixed the fan and one 500 watt heating element will be fine to heat up a closet or something. Now to test the thermostat on it.

And I really must have hit the one online store that overcharges for the concentrate, because the Northern Brewer site has them for very reasonable. I still probably won't use it because of the cans, but thanks for the ideas anyway.!
The Engineering Section
Knowlton Acres

#9 cknowlto

cknowlto

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 661 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bloomfield, NY
  • Interests:Metalworking
    Woodworking
    Software
    CNC

Posted 11 November 2010 - 07:49 PM

1 Gallon batch of Apple+Cherry in progress.

4 Cans Welches AppleCherry
1.25 lbs sugar
Well Water to make 1.25 Gallons
1/2 Tsp Peptic Enzyme
1/2 Tsp Acid Blend
1 Tsp Yeast Nutrient
pinch K-Meta (this will be sitting out in a kitchen during primary)

Letting it sit over-nite.

Tomorrow I will pitch with EC-1118 Starter that I will get started in the morning.

Opening SG was 1.115 which was a little high, but I will be adding about 2 cups of liquid with the starter. So I will check it again after pitching. If I end up with more than 1Gal, oh well.

The cans said there was no preservatives, so I am not whipping it or anything.

I am hoping to end up with enough lees to start my SP and some drinkable "Cooler" style wine that my wife might actually like. I will probably stop the ferment as soon as it hits 8-10% alch.

I got $8 invested in it, so what the heck :-) I am going to learn this craft yet!
The Engineering Section
Knowlton Acres

#10 Wade's Wines

Wade's Wines

    Colonel Wade, Bottle Brigade, 3rd Glass

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16021 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee, 70mi. South of Nashville
  • Interests:Winemaking
    Auctioneering
    Woodcarving
    Brewing
    Kayaking

Posted 12 November 2010 - 07:33 AM

Sounds good!
Where you used frozen concentrate and no fresh fruit or juice, you could probably have skipped the K-Meta all together and just added the yeast.
How do you intend to stop the ferment at 8% to 10% alcohol?
Tennessee Auctioneer, makin' wines and growin' vines!
The Best of Times is Now! :0)

#11 Tomer1

Tomer1

    Look Out Ernest & Julio

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5420 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Israel
  • Interests:Music writing\production, cooking, cheesemaking, winemaking, piano playing, sound design.

Posted 12 November 2010 - 08:08 AM

You cant get rid of the existing sorbate (nor kmeta which binds) but your diluting both to a neglectable concentration which wont effect fermentation.

If I were into tatoos... I would tatoo some grapes on my forarm. :P


#12 A_perfect_ashler

A_perfect_ashler

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 781 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roscoe, Illinois USA (TOP CENTER OF Illinois)
  • Interests:Wine making with free or cheap ingreds. berries I pick or wild grapes. And meads. Freemasonry. A Moderator on makingwine at yahoo.com.

Posted 12 November 2010 - 03:33 PM

I am going to try a 1 Gallon batch of apple cherry from Welches frozen concentrates tonight and use the lees from that for my SP batch, which, according to Lon's recommendation, I will make 5 gallon sized. Now I need another 5G carboy :-(




If you need carboys you might try this guy, you aren't too far from Pa. He says he has 880 of em he will sell for $5.00 Ea.
My link

Dave
To drink the bubbles is heavenly, to put them in is devine!  David F. Warner 2005

It was the accepted practice in Babylon 4,000 years ago that for a month after the wedding, the bride's father would supply his son-in-law with all the mead he could drink. It was belived this would insure fertility. Mead is a honey beer and because their calendar was lunar based, this period was called the honey month, which we know today as the honeymoon.
da"Penicillin cures, but wine makes people happy." Alexander Fleming (1881-1955), the Scottish bacteriologist who discovered Penicillin in 1928.

#13 cknowlto

cknowlto

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 661 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bloomfield, NY
  • Interests:Metalworking
    Woodworking
    Software
    CNC

Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:43 PM

If you need carboys you might try this guy, you aren't too far from Pa. He says he has 880 of em he will sell for $5.00 Ea.
My link

Dave

WARNING FUZZY MATH AHEAD!
Hhhmmm... 230 miles = 12 gallons at $3 = $36 each way = $72 + about 20 carboys @ $5 = $100 =~ $200 after meals. Then if I sell 10 of them @ $10 I get my $100 back and I am still out $100 for 10 carboys. That is $10 each which is about what I like to pay at yard sales. So that makes a lot of sense, yes? :D

Unfortunately the wife will look at the initial $200 figure and say HELL NO! bawling.gif

Lol! Actually it's not her fault, it's just too far :-)
The Engineering Section
Knowlton Acres

#14 cknowlto

cknowlto

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 661 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bloomfield, NY
  • Interests:Metalworking
    Woodworking
    Software
    CNC

Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:49 PM

By the way, I changed my mind on stopping this wine. I am going to let it run till it stops and then back sweeten. I want to do this because after all the adds I did to the recipe I have a little over 1.5 gallons and back-sweetening it might get me near 2 Gallons. Plus the extra alcohol will do me good :drunk: I am going to check it tonight. It has been perking away nicely in the primary.
The Engineering Section
Knowlton Acres

#15 frohe

frohe

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 11 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:central texas

Posted 03 December 2010 - 04:52 AM

And I really must have hit the one online store that overcharges for the concentrate, because the Northern Brewer site has them for very reasonable. I still probably won't use it because of the cans, but thanks for the ideas anyway.!









Yeppers, you really need to shop around to find the best deals. Try thebrewshopokc.com.; they average $27.56 / can making each 750 ml bottle average $1.84. Not shabby at all.
-frohe

2010: Red, White, Apple, Peach, Raisin, Amaretto & Raspberry
2011 (planned): Raspberry, Peach, Red, White, Spiced Banana, Strawberry, Watermelon, Skeeter Pee, Apple Cider, Elderberry, Pumpkin & Plum




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users