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#1 Calamity Cellars

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 11:40 PM

I have been searching the usual suspect web sites for a bottle filler. Seems to me that the MoreWine WE644 with the add ons that Crazy Run Ranch did (See Topic) is the best filler at the best price available. So here is the challenge....convince me that this is not the best decision. Also, since I plan on growing should I put out the extra dough for the six spout instead of the four spout? I'd like to make a decision and get this ordered in time to bottle my nearly 900 bottles of white wine that will be ready this coming spring.

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#2 Purple Grin Winery

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 09:39 AM

That's a pretty hefty chunk of change for an annual use.

We just did 625 in three or four hours about a month ago using that black and white buon vino super filler (30 bucks?) while pulling a vacuum on the overflow tube. This was demonstrated to us at the '08 Winefest in Sonoma by Valley Vintner.

I could "almost" keep the girls busy at the floor corker. If I want to go faster next year, I'll buy another one and use the same vacuum line.

It also fits in a drawer. Man, I can't believe how much crap I'm accumulating!
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#3 Crazy Run Ranch

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 10:05 AM

Come on PG, that's not enabling Calamity to feed his addiction very well! You might guess that will not try and talk you out of it. Seriously, if 900 is just one of the wines made and there are others, using an individual bottle filler is going to be a killer. We bottled 120 cases using the 4 spout in about 3 hours with a couple breaks. The limiting factor becomes the corker and after two sessions of this size, an Italian corker will be in need of a rebuild. One of these days I need a better corker but for now, there is too big a jump from the Ferrari to the next wrung up machine. But that's another story. I did quite a bit of research before buying the WE644 and found it to be the best machine for the dollars. With the level control I built for it, it works extremely well. I have 2 seasoned bottling veterans who have helped me bottle for several years. I thought these guys were going to give the machine a hug at the end of the day. We knocked out 120 cases and had a good time doing it. I definitely don't regret the purchase. You might find it surprising that I made several mods and add-ons before using it but I find this is usually the case with off the shelf products. Did I read that you have a semi-automatic corker? If so, your throughput will go up.

#4 Purple Grin Winery

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 10:11 AM

Come on PG, that's not enabling Calamity to feed his addiction very well!

Did I read that you have a semi-automatic corker?



Alright! Buy it!!! But we want video.

And I hope you were referring to CC's corker. I would NOT consider Mrs. Lacy to be semi-anything.

Good thing she can't log in here....
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#5 Calamity Cellars

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 10:25 AM

Come on PG, that's not enabling Calamity to feed his addiction very well! You might guess that will not try and talk you out of it. Seriously, if 900 is just one of the wines made and there are others, using an individual bottle filler is going to be a killer. We bottled 120 cases using the 4 spout in about 3 hours with a couple breaks. The limiting factor becomes the corker and after two sessions of this size, an Italian corker will be in need of a rebuild. One of these days I need a better corker but for now, there is too big a jump from the Ferrari to the next wrung up machine. But that's another story. I did quite a bit of research before buying the WE644 and found it to be the best machine for the dollars. With the level control I built for it, it works extremely well. I have 2 seasoned bottling veterans who have helped me bottle for several years. I thought these guys were going to give the machine a hug at the end of the day. We knocked out 120 cases and had a good time doing it. I definitely don't regret the purchase. You might find it surprising that I made several mods and add-ons before using it but I find this is usually the case with off the shelf products. Did I read that you have a semi-automatic corker? If so, your throughput will go up.


I did buy a corker. It is by ABC Manufacturing which appears to be out of business. This makes me nervous. It is an air powered unit. You have to set the bottle on the machine and manually drop a cork into the top of the mechanism then shut the plastic front door to activate the plunger. The plunger pushes the cork through a plastic/Teflon/nylon cone that compresses the cork on it's way to the top of the bottle. Haven't tried it yet but I am excited to give it a go. I am already thinking that I will remove the door safety switch and install some sort of push button. I don't think it will be too much faster that a floor corker but it should be way easier. I picked up another Ferrari floor corker off craigslist so I am hoping that corking will not be my pinch point. I also had a real old corker basically given to me but it's status is unknown. The guy that had it before me said there was a chattering in one of the mechanisms. I haven't looked at it yet but I think it needs a lot of work. I met a winemaker that bought the unit I now have used 25 years ago so it has been around. If I can get it working it will replace all of them. It has a big cork hopper on top and goes through a full single cork cycle with one push of a foot activated switch. I am thinking that it will be my major winter project this year.

I read the topic where you described the electronic level control and I have looked at the links for the controller but the link for the air shutoff solenoid is broken. I can picture everything in my feeble little imagination except the install on the filler of the level controller sensors. Any chance I could get a few pictures?

Also, Have you though about extending the fill tubes so they are not splashing into the bottles and would fill from the bottom? I remember seeing a study on O2 & bottle shock, maybe on this site, about the biggest factor in reducing O2 was filling from the bottom...even over purging with inert gas. I have always wondered if sticking a piece of flexible tubing on the end the stainless fill spouts would help with this? Just a thought.

Alan Holtzheimer


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#6 Hammered

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 11:33 AM

[Also, Have you though about extending the fill tubes so they are not splashing into the bottles and would fill from the bottom? I remember seeing a study on O2 & bottle shock, maybe on this site, about the biggest factor in reducing O2 was filling from the bottom...even over purging with inert gas. I have always wondered if sticking a piece of flexible tubing on the end the stainless fill spouts would help with this? Just a thought.
[/quote]
It wouldn't work with that filler as the gas inside the bottle would not have a way out. In that design, there's a small tube that runs up the center of the fill spout that allows the gas and minor foam to escape while the wine is filling. Once the wine hits the bottom of the spout and closes off that port, the wine stops filling. You can see that tube where it exits the elbow at the top of the spout.
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#7 Whackfol

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 12:21 PM

I too spent a good amount of time looking and finally decided on the Marchisio that CRR recommended. I have not done any alterations and at last use pumped up to a 150L VCT and used gravity to supply the filler from there. As said earlier, it is overkill for my annual production. However, I have lost my help to college and don't want to spend all day bottling. Last month, I bottled a barrel by myself in just over an hour. That does not include the break I took after refilling the VCT and letting it settle. Just me, a four spout filler and a Ferreri corker produced just shy of 25 cases in about an hour. I'm sold.

Depending on your time frame, you should look around for a deal. The Marchisio would not have been my first choice if I could have found a better deal on one of the others. But, as a value, I rate the Marchisio highly. If you are interested in how I ranked the fillers I considered, check out the post referenced at the top.

In looking back at the post, If a person has "Banned" next to their profile status, does that mean they have been banned from the site?

#8 Calamity Cellars

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 12:32 PM

I too spent a good amount of time looking and finally decided on the Marchisio that CRR recommended. I have not done any alterations and at last use pumped up to a 150L VCT and used gravity to supply the filler from there. As said earlier, it is overkill for my annual production. However, I have lost my help to college and don't want to spend all day bottling. Last month, I bottled a barrel by myself in just over an hour. That does not include the break I took after refilling the VCT and letting it settle. Just me, a four spout filler and a Ferreri corker produced just shy of 25 cases in about an hour. I'm sold.

Depending on your time frame, you should look around for a deal. The Marchisio would not have been my first choice if I could have found a better deal on one of the others. But, as a value, I rate the Marchisio highly. If you are interested in how I ranked the fillers I considered, check out the post referenced at the top.

In looking back at the post, If a person has "Banned" next to their profile status, does that mean they have been banned from the site?


So the MoreWine WE644 is made by Machisio? Your list on the other topic is in order that you would have liked but you chose the WE644 because it was priced lower than those above it on the list? Why did you like the others better?

Why did Grapenuts get banned? Didn't notice that when I was reading over that topic lately.

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#9 Crazy Run Ranch

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 12:40 PM

I read the topic where you described the electronic level control and I have looked at the links for the controller but the link for the air shutoff solenoid is broken. I can picture everything in my feeble little imagination except the install on the filler of the level controller sensors. Any chance I could get a few pictures?

Also, Have you though about extending the fill tubes so they are not splashing into the bottles and would fill from the bottom? I remember seeing a study on O2 & bottle shock, maybe on this site, about the biggest factor in reducing O2 was filling from the bottom...even over purging with inert gas. I have always wondered if sticking a piece of flexible tubing on the end the stainless fill spouts would help with this? Just a thought.


Here's the level control electronics and floats:
http://www.reefgeek....by_Reef_Fanatic

Here's the air solenoid from Grainger:
http://www.grainger....&N=0&sst=subset

The suction cup bracket that comes with the floats seemed like a joke. I built a bracket, I'll post a picture later.
I read the same study about filling from the bottom. Its the one thing my old siphon filler did better. It might be possible, but you would have to modify the filling head extensively. There is a sliding collar that shuts off the flow when the level is reached. So both the fill tube and collar tube would have to extend down to the bottom. Of course this would displace a bunch of wine so it might not be even possible. Note that the wine comes out sideways and runs down the side of the bottle, its not like is just spews straight down and foams up.

#10 Whackfol

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 01:25 PM

Let me preface, for the money, I would not change my mind about the Marchisio Hobby I purchased.

The GAI was my first choice. I liked it because the tube inserted lower into the bottle and reduced the splashing. Also, the shutoff mechanism was very simple with few parts. The Tivoli was just well made and I had multiple people recommend it. The MEP with the sparger looked like a great combo. I'm not sure with the difference in cost, you could buy the regulator and sparging device.

A couple of wineries in my area use the Marchisio for small runs between using a mobile bottling line. Non have anything bad to say. Most really like it. I have only done two bottlings with mine. Each, one barrel and I am thrilled.

#11 Calamity Cellars

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 01:44 PM

I too spent a good amount of time looking and finally decided on the Marchisio that CRR recommended. I have not done any alterations and at last use pumped up to a 150L VCT and used gravity to supply the filler from there. As said earlier, it is overkill for my annual production. However, I have lost my help to college and don't want to spend all day bottling. Last month, I bottled a barrel by myself in just over an hour. That does not include the break I took after refilling the VCT and letting it settle. Just me, a four spout filler and a Ferreri corker produced just shy of 25 cases in about an hour. I'm sold.

Depending on your time frame, you should look around for a deal. The Marchisio would not have been my first choice if I could have found a better deal on one of the others. But, as a value, I rate the Marchisio highly. If you are interested in how I ranked the fillers I considered, check out the post referenced at the top.

In looking back at the post, If a person has "Banned" next to their profile status, does that mean they have been banned from the site?


I am confused Whackfol. Did you buy the WE644 or the WE610? I did a few searches for Marchisio and all of their units I could find looked more like the WE610.

Alan Holtzheimer


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#12 Whackfol

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 01:59 PM

Mine looks like the 644. (CRR verified in the original post that the Morewine filler was indeed a Marchisio Hobby) You should probably confirm so you know we are talking the same unit.

I searched for the Marchisio Hobby 4 and found this manual at Gino Pinto. This is what I have, without the filter and pump. Mine is four spout and the table top model.

http://www.ginopinto.com/manuals/ss_filler.pdf

This is the page for the filler on marchisio's site:

http://www.fratellimarchisio.com/en/pro_articolo.asp

You will notice the base unit has multiple configurations - table top vs floor standing, with and without pumps & filters...

#13 Crazy Run Ranch

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 02:05 PM

Like Whackfol says, the WE644 is made by Marchisio. I never looked at the GAI based on price. I did look at the Tivoli, it was similar in price but a little more. I could see no advantage. The MEP seems expensive and it would have to be shipped where with MoreWine local, there was no need. Plus I have other non-published reasons for not buying the MEP. I was also really interested in TCW in house design. Beautiful work and novel design but pricey.
Anyway, here's photos of the float bracket-

Attached File  Float bracket.jpg   25.75K   32 downloads

I attach this to the tank above the wine level. The o-ring seals the whole just in case it gets overfilled some how. The threads at the cap and floats are sealed with food grade silicone.

Here's photos of the filler nozzle -

Attached File  Filler open.jpg   35.43K   37 downloadsAttached File  Filler closed.jpg   34.69K   24 downloads

The lower holes (1 on each side) are where the wine comes out. The smaller upper hole is where your sparging gas gets pushed to the top of the reservoir. You can't see the passageway for this but its there. You could slice the nozzle between the fill and vent holes and graft a tube to extend the nozzle. But you would also have to extend the outer collar so that it would shut off properly. And while slice and dicing, keep everything concentric and parallel to insure no leaks when it shuts off. It would be tricky and require a good fab guy to pull it off.

#14 Calamity Cellars

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 02:39 PM

WE644....Check

Float Bracket.....Check

Don't screw with the nozzles.....Check

Thanks guys, now I need to work my 'buy it cheap' magic and I'll be set. Nobody has done a very good job of talking me out of this. Let's see what the wife has to say.

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#15 Whackfol

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 02:50 PM

I learned this from my wife: "See what Santa brought me"

I'm not sure if it is legal for a man to say it.




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