57 replies to this topic

[bzac]

http://www.bluegrousevineyards.com/story.html

mostly german varietakls and pinot noir and gris

[Hammered]

Wow. I'd love to say "I knew you when..."

Do the math, make the plan and let the passion make great wines.

Big jump. Be wise and prosper. I want to be member #1 on your wine club.

[rpage53]

They were one of the first on the island and have some nicely established vines now, though I haven't been there for many years. I've always liked their Pinot Noir and I have a bottle of 2005 Pinot in the cellar I almost opened last week but I went with one from a new winery in Creston instead (Skimmerhorn).

I have a vague recollection that they did a sparkling Pinot Gris back in the mid '90's but they may have provided the grapes to Zanatta for that. Many of these smaller wineries aren't listed by the government liquor stores, so for them to have lasted this long you know the wine is good.

So I say, go for it. You have all the skills and knowledge to keep it a success. Are you going to have to sell the boat? There's some great sailing out of Cowichan Bay.

Rick.
PS I thought their kids were going to take over?

[Calamity Cellars]

Here's my input, for what it is worth.

Some businesses are investments. You can buy a McDonald's franchise and it will usually come down to a numbers game; demographics, location, car count, interest rates, blah blah blah. The person that you are is fairly irrelevant.

Wineries, I believe, are just the opposite. Yes the accounting and business side is there but who you are is extremely important. I deal with this in my towing company. Too often my customers are MY customers and not the companies customers. It is based on me and the relationships that I have built over time. There is nothing wrong with that, in fact, it makes for very loyal customers. The problem is that the personal loyalty can't be sold and transferred to a new owner. When I am gone so is the loyalty.

I have no doubt that you are an excellent winemaker. But will you make the wine EXACTLY like they did? Given that wine is art and science, I doubt it. What percentage of their customers are loyal to the wine that will probably change when you take over? What percentage of their customers are loyal to the experience or relationship that they had with the previous owners? Distributors are relational as well. Will they stick with you?

Buying their real estate and equipment is fairly straight forward. It's worth what it is worth. Buying blue sky is very tricky. What is a winery's value above the tangible property worth when the wine and personality of the winery are most certainly going to change under the new ownership?

I am not trying to be a stick in the mud here but you asked. I am extremely satisfied with starting my own winery on a small scale and growing it with my style and personality. Given that style and personality are such a huge part of the boutique winery I would have to be getting the deal of the century before I considered acquiring someone else's dream.

[Tomer1]

Buying their real estate and equipment is fairly straight forward. It's worth what it is worth. Buying blue sky is very tricky. What is a winery's value above the tangible property worth when the wine and personality of the winery are most certainly going to change under the new ownership?

This is a good point,
Perhaps some rich guy whos looking for a hobby will buy it whole and continue doing "their" thing because he doesnt know how to do it differently,
I assume that you by being a winemaker who knows a thing a two want to do "your" own thing.
So if its not part of the agreement to keep the whole "buisness" intact then I would try to approach it as buying just the propery (vinyard+warehouse+equipment) without the winery name and whats behind it,
Let them know you respect what they have achived but by selling it they are ending it.
Start your own winery from there.

[deb_rn]

OR... you could start with THEIR styles of wine... slowly introduce a couple of YOUR style each year... refresh the palates.

Debbie

[rawlus]

i don't think it is practical to buy the business and expect to grow it.
it may be practical to buy the land and the equipment and plan to start your own winery - but you have to do the numbers and make it work for your own conditions/finances.

keeping their style of wine and transitioning is not practical - wineries are about the identity of the winemaker - except for giant commercial bulk wine makers where there is a formulaic approach to the wine like a cocacola recipe, wineries usually have major transformations as winemakers come and go. maintaining their former winemakers style is easier said than done unless you are retaining alot or all of the existing talent.

[rawlus]

and honestly, if you can take the agriculture out of the equation somewhat, i think you stand a better chance of being successful in a shorter period of time. source the fruit, develop vineyard relationships and buy the best fruit you can at the best prices you can and concentrate on the winemaking - because doing both, growing the grapes and making/marketing the wine are two huge jobs with very different skillsets. unless you are able to hire experts to run these operations for you - it is difficult to do yourself alone and be successful.

an urban winery, in relatively inexpensive downtown retail space, can make a great startup winery operation - equipment in the back, tasting bar in the front, retail hours of operation... source the fruit from wherever you like - tasting room in retail location drives sampling which drives sales - you can probably come close to even without getting into distribution issues if you can work full time and maintain minimal additional staff or volunteer staff, which is a whole other expertise. you can start relatively small, maybe offer winemaking classes or group barrel projects (this is becoming common now, 6 couples go in on a full barrel for about $1000 per couple, you take them through crushpad to bottling), barrel tastings drive futures orders which help offset up-front costs of packaging, bottles, corks, capsules, labels, etc... and provide capital for next fruit purchase... maintain small batches with good mix of red and white offerings, i think you need to offer accessible varietals in order to be successful earlier out, no strange unknown hybrids or american varieties.. but you can source from anywhere just like a home winemaker, and you are not encumbered by the vagaries of weather and crops... if its a bad chilean year, you can get washington fruit. as someone said earlier, it is about the relationships you make with the customer and to that extent, whether or not YOU grew the fruit matters less than what you did with it after it was harvested and ultimately, whether or not the people who come through the winery doors like you as a person or not.

[rpage53]

OR... you could start with THEIR styles of wine... slowly introduce a couple of YOUR style each year... refresh the palates.

Debbie

That would be my suggestion. You can even retain their winemaker so there is no reason why the wine has to change with a change of ownership -- unless you want it to. For a multi-million dollar investment, I think you want to maintain the current clientele.
Blue Grouse is part of the wine tour circuit now and I have no idea how onerous that part of the business is, but most owners of estate wineries in BC live on the property.
If you haven't already, contact the Vinters Association. I missed the tasting last month because I was in the Okanagan.
http://www.wineislands.ca/

Rick.

[bzac]

Small wineries change winemakers all the time, and this one makes 2500 cases a year , small lots of german style whites and pretty decent if middle of the road pinot and gamay noir. I think I can imprint enough of my own style without alienating the clientel. its not like I'm going to start oaking the german style whites or making a pinot gris sherry.
they don't have a subscriber list , they sell to tourist restaurants and farm gate style they sell out their production annualy, there is some cache in being a vancouver island producer of strait vinifera on the local wino and restaurant market..

I'm not sure I will even keep the name. maybe but I don't think its so well known it is worth a premium.

I might keep it for the estate wines. but I am thinking of creating a second line under a differnt lable from okanagan fruit and growing the company that way to 4- 5000 cases in a few years time.

as for buying fruit and not having a land based winery well , here in BC a land based winery is taxed at half what a commercial winery is, so its actualy a bussiness model that can work well. I looked at a commercial urban winery , but the taxes and liscencing
and municiple permits are pretty onerous. the make your own barell market is saturated by uvints who have moved into grapes

and being a land based winery I can finance under the Federal governments Farm Credit Canada corporation,
essentialy a government bank for farmers. the financing is very low interest and there are alot of
grants and programs under the system for agritourism.
I can even get a grant to convert to sustainable systems, which happens to be my area of experitise so I could use my winery as a model for consulting for the big guys, .

central to it is , I'm a vancouver islander born and bread, that place is as much a part of me as it is of the wine, I want to be near my family (and them to be a part of this bussiness)and make the best damn pinot noir in the region! there are 15 more acres to plant and the rest already has 20 year old vines on it.any way I just got the 5 year finacials and am working on my bussiness plan , if the numbers don't work, I might wait till I find something that fits the dream and works as a bissiness

[Hammered]

We're going to be up in Victoria for Canada Day on our neighbor's boat. We'll have to check them out!

[rawlus]

my mistake - i missed the BC connection - completely different world from US market i think. uvints are not at all common here and urban winery model is more cost effective than land-based in most markets.

[bzac]

my mistake - i missed the BC connection - completely different world from US market i think. uvints are not at all common here and urban winery model is more cost effective than land-based in most markets.

ah yes here in the land of socialised capitalism the tax system changes all bussiness models

[Hammered]

And don't forget you spell socialized with an s instead of a z. For crying out loud...

But last year was a hoot.

[rpage53]

But last year was a hoot.

I had supper tonight with a couple of Air Force officers, so I'll take that use of the anthem as a tribute
Rick.