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#1 Calamity Cellars

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 06:34 PM

I am struggling with a decision and I am hoping to get some help. I own a Bun Vino Super Jet filter and I am getting ready to filter & bottle my riesling. I plan on back sweetening just a bit with some juice that was held out and frozen and I am concerned with refermentation when it is added to the wine. In doing my research I have learned that the Super Jet "sterile" filter pads are .5 to 1 microns and sterile filtering needs to be at .45 microns or smaller to ensure no yeast or bacteria passes into the bottle. This batch is 23 gallons and I don't anticipate doing anything smaller in the near future. We are planning on a minimum of 31 gallons of both riesling and chardonnay for the 2010 season. The problem I am finding is that the stainless cartridge filter setups are out of my price range. My money has been spent on Macro Bins and Barrels. I certainly would entertain buying the SS housing in the future but I need to filter the riesling this month. Is there a happy medium that you know of?

Alan Holtzheimer


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#2 cpfan

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 07:18 PM

Have you added sorbate? If not, will you be adding sorbate?

If yes, should be no problem.

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#3 Joe_Sallo

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 07:24 PM

I am struggling with a decision and I am hoping to get some help. I own a Bun Vino Super Jet filter and I am getting ready to filter & bottle my Riesling. I plan on back sweetening just a bit with some juice that was held out and frozen and I am concerned with refermentation when it is added to the wine. In doing my research I have learned that the Super Jet "sterile" filter pads are .5 to 1 microns and sterile filtering needs to be at .45 microns or smaller to ensure no yeast or bacteria passes into the bottle. This batch is 23 gallons and I don't anticipate doing anything smaller in the near future. We are planning on a minimum of 31 gallons of both Riesling and chardonnay for the 2010 season. The problem I am finding is that the stainless cartridge filter setups are out of my price range. My money has been spent on Macro Bins and Barrels. I certainly would entertain buying the SS housing in the future but I need to filter the Riesling this month. Is there a happy medium that you know of?


Yes, your filter and potassium or sodium benzoate or sorbate if you are comfortable with that. You could bottle a bit and see what you think too.

Heres the thing with sterile filtering, that is just the beginning, the bottles, corks and everything involved in the bottling process need to be sterile too to guarantee no refermenting in any bottles. A sterile bottling room in a home winery is hard to come by. The other thing to consider if you go this route is that there is a big difference between 0.45 micron and 0.45 micron absolute, you want an absolute for sterile filtering. Presque Isle had a sterile filtering setup that was reasonable at higher volumes, enolmatic has a setup too.

#4 Medsen Fey

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 07:29 PM

The plastic housings for cartridge filters are much less expensive than stainless. I'd love to be able to afford the stainless housing....maybe one day.

A 0.65 micron absolute filter will take care of the yeast and if you sulfite it, the bacteria aren't as big a deal. Using 0.45 will also take care of bacteria (mostly) but sulfites are still a good idea.

The biggest problem I'm having is figuring out how to do testing to check the integrity of the filter. If anyone has a good resource to point me to, I'd sure appreciate it.

Medsen
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#5 WineMan2008

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 07:57 PM

I am struggling with a decision and I am hoping to get some help. I own a Bun Vino Super Jet filter and I am getting ready to filter & bottle my riesling. I plan on back sweetening just a bit with some juice that was held out and frozen and I am concerned with refermentation when it is added to the wine. In doing my research I have learned that the Super Jet "sterile" filter pads are .5 to 1 microns and sterile filtering needs to be at .45 microns or smaller to ensure no yeast or bacteria passes into the bottle. This batch is 23 gallons and I don't anticipate doing anything smaller in the near future. We are planning on a minimum of 31 gallons of both riesling and chardonnay for the 2010 season. The problem I am finding is that the stainless cartridge filter setups are out of my price range. My money has been spent on Macro Bins and Barrels. I certainly would entertain buying the SS housing in the future but I need to filter the riesling this month. Is there a happy medium that you know of?

What you need is an Enolomatic bottling machine with an in line cartridge filter. They have filter cartridges as low as 0.2 micron. My friend Garymica told me about this machine and filter. When you filter your wine 1st with the medium filter, then after c/s filter with the fine filter, then when bottling use the 0.2 filter, you should be OK.

#6 rawlus

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 08:35 PM

rather than the hundreds for an enolmatic.

this filter housing


plus this Pre-Filter

then this absolute membrane filter

you'll get the filters with DOE ends (double open ends) for that canister type.

both are reusable with proper procedures. you can fashion an autoclave if you wish with a home pressure cooker even.

for small batches, i think this approach is most economical.

i don't think the inline filter setup for the enolmatic is the best option as it is a proprietary design and expensive to boot. there's no reason why you couldn't use the above setup with an enolmatic if you already have one though. prefiltering is of course necessary no matter what before you get to absolute sterile filteration of .45 microns or less. if you already have a superjet, then that should suffice for prefiltering and after running the finest pads on the superjet, then go to the membrane in the canister. you can prob use the superjets pump to run the wine through too (though i have not tried that personally)

#7 Medsen Fey

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 08:56 PM

i don't think the inline filter setup for the enolmatic is the best option as it is a proprietary design and expensive to boot. there's no reason why you couldn't use the above setup with an enolmatic if you already have one though. prefiltering is of course necessary no matter what before you get to absolute sterile filteration of .45 microns or less.


If I recall, the enolmatic filters are nominal filters, not absolute, so to get a sterile filtration you'll have to use the 0.2 micron filter.

From my experience, with a batch of 5 gallons, you can use a 10 inch cartridge filter without doing a prefiltration.
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#8 Calamity Cellars

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 09:05 PM

rather than the hundreds for an enolmatic.

this filter housing


Will this hold up the the vacuum created by the enolmatic? What kind of flow rate would I expect using the enolmatic?

Alan Holtzheimer


Silver Bell Winery


#9 Joe_Sallo

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 04:28 AM

Will this hold up the the vacuum created by the enolmatic? What kind of flow rate would I expect using the enolmatic?


The vent could be an issue.


I'm going to dig out my enolomatic, and try it for demijohn racking, never used to filter.



#10 Hammered

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 10:04 AM

Will this hold up the the vacuum created by the enolmatic? What kind of flow rate would I expect using the enolmatic?

I don't know why not. I used a similar filter both with a vacuum and pushing with N2 and it worked great. The real key is to start with the filter full of water so you don't end up with oxygen in the setup which could continue to bubble through the wine when you get the wine flowing through.

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#11 West Seattle Winery

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 05:25 PM

Sorry I know this post is old... but I haven't spent a lot of time on here lately and am trying to catch up. Here is some stuff I have been looking at lately.

Valley Vintner has a similar filter housing. You can get an absolute filter set up for less than $200.

Filter Housing - http://valleyvintner...ategory_Code=PF

.45 Micron Absolute filter cartridge - http://valleyvintner...ategory_Code=PF

You will want to filter through your superjet first to grab larger particles then filter through your absolute filter. You could go straight to the absolute filter... but the cartridge will clog faster... and... well... the filter pads are WAY cheaper than the absolute cartridges.
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#12 Calamity Cellars

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 08:37 PM

Thanks for the timely response you slacker!!!!!!

I suppose I should have updated my sterile filter quest. I found a smoking deal on a cartridge filter base and both a 10" & 30" housing. Including shipping I have around $300.00 into the setup. I won't need the 30" for a long time but the price was right so I went ahead and bought it. The 10" sterile cartridges are pretty expensive so I will run the wine through the super jet and then the sterile cartridge.

Alan Holtzheimer


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#13 NorthernWiner

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 09:45 PM

Valley Vintner has a similar filter housing. You can get an absolute filter set up for less than $200.

Filter Housing - http://valleyvintner...ategory_Code=PF

.45 Micron Absolute filter cartridge - http://valleyvintner...ategory_Code=PF

I have this very setup and have to say that, while it will do sterile filtering, it is extremely s-l-o-o-o-o-ow when pulling a large batch through a 45 µ cartridge using a vacuum. The couple of times I've done it, the concern has been more with oxidation than anything.

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#14 West Seattle Winery

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 10:05 PM

Thanks for the timely response you slacker!!!!!!

I suppose I should have updated my sterile filter quest. I found a smoking deal on a cartridge filter base and both a 10" & 30" housing. Including shipping I have around $300.00 into the setup. I won't need the 30" for a long time but the price was right so I went ahead and bought it. The 10" sterile cartridges are pretty expensive so I will run the wine through the super jet and then the sterile cartridge.


Yeah I have been a slacker for sure!

Wow you always find great deals! I haven't bought one yet... and if said deal is still available I would be very interested! St. Pats has the 10" .45 micron cartriges for $85... not sayin its cheap... but it's not too bad either.
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#15 West Seattle Winery

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 10:11 PM

I have this very setup and have to say that, while it will do sterile filtering, it is extremely s-l-o-o-o-o-ow when pulling a large batch through a 45 µ cartridge using a vacuum. The couple of times I've done it, the concern has been more with oxidation than anything.


That is interesting... where are you getting oxygen exposure? I was thinking of blowing nitrogen through the lines then: Vaccuum-> 3 gallon carboy (to pull vaccuum/overflow protection)-> bottle filler-> filter-> keg full of wine. Entire set up should be closed to air right?

I did notice that the filter housing comes with 3/8" posts but I would certainly put 1/2" posts on it. I read somewhere else on the forum that moving from 3/8 to 1/2 reduced time by like 2/3rds or something like that. I believe quoted time was 21 minutes to 7 minutes if memory serves.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

--EDIT--

ok so my memory on time was off... but percentages was pretty close. I was remembering Purple Grin's message on vaccuum racking his barrels:

"Using the Harbor Freight 2.5 cfm ($90) it took me 70 minutes to transfer a 60 gallon barrel to another using my old 3/8-inch tubing and clear racking cane (which has an incredibly small ID).

Then I bought two 1/2-inch racking canes from morewine (which they were out of stock on, so sent me the thin-walled stainless canes), which transfers in 21 minutes. "

http://www.winepress...__p__1058140610

21 minutes still seems like a long time to rack 1 barrel... but could be worse I guess. Still curious about your concern on the oxygen exposure... is the integrity of the filter housing not sound?
-Charlie
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