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How many # of grapes for 5 gal carboy


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#1 Joe

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 09:21 AM

Can you tell me how many pounds of grapes do I need to make a completed 5 gal carboy of wine.

Thank you

Joe

#2 pp270

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 10:11 AM

I am told anywhere from 10-14lbs of grapes per gal. I just started the primary on my wine so I don't know the exact ratio. Probably can give you a better idea in a couple weeks when I press the must into the secondary.

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#3 Joel

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 10:20 AM

I made 12 gallons of concord 2 years ago, and had 150 lbs of grapes. I think I recently heard that you estimate 100 lbs of red grapes for 5-6 gallons of wine. I don't remember about white grapes though...
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#4 Seb

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 03:40 PM

Normally the grape are sold in 36 lbs cases and that will give after pressing about 10 L per case of 36lbs depending on the variety but it doesn't change a lot. So, you need two 36lbs cases for one 18.9liter carboy or five 36lbs cases for two 23 Lt carboy.

Hope this help
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#5 stevec

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Posted 27 July 2004 - 04:34 PM

QUOTE (Seb @ Sep 16 2003, 03:06 PM)
Normally the grape are sold in 36 lbs cases and that will give after pressing about 10 L per case of 36lbs depending on the variety but it doesn't change a lot. So, you need two 36lbs cases for one 18.9liter carboy or five 36lbs cases for two 23 Lt carboy.

Hope this help

Seb,

Using the formula of 90 to 100 lbs of grapes for 23 liters, is this the total amount of juice (free run and press) or only the free run? If you were to separate the two, how many pounds would you need to get 23 liters of free run and light press? I know that a definitive answer depends on many factors, but perhaps you could share your experience?

Thank you.


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#6 drpp

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Posted 27 July 2004 - 05:23 PM

The yield also depends on what do you use to press.

Pp

#7 Seb

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Posted 27 July 2004 - 05:26 PM

QUOTE (stevec @ Jul 27 2004, 05:00 PM)
Seb,

Using the formula of 90 to 100 lbs of grapes for 23 liters, is this the total amount of juice (free run and press) or only the free run? If you were to separate the two, how many pounds would you need to get 23 liters of free run and light press? I know that a definitive answer depends on many factors, but perhaps you could share your experience?

This is the total amount of juice from the free run and press. And this is only the number you get after a good dry press with a vertical basket press ( you will get more juice with a bladder press or hydraulic ), this is not the finished wine!

Now how many pounds to get 23 L of free run juice with little or no press as you ask... I can only give an estimate as i never use only the free run, i always blend the free and press juice immediately after the press in the same carboy. What i am sure is that the minimum will be 3 cases of 36lbs. So 108 lbs is the minimum and i think that around 125-130 lbs should be a right amount to be sure that your carboy are full of free run juice. If i can give you an advice, you are better with more than not enough. You could in this situation buy 4 cases of 36lbs for a total of 144lbs to fill your 23L carboy and if you get some surplus you could use is as top up wine later on. You've got lot's of sediment in the first weeks with grapes wines. Also, some variety will produce more/less juice than an other.

You don't whant to blend both free and press juice together, why ?
Sébastien Mailloux
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#8 stevec

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Posted 27 July 2004 - 06:24 PM

QUOTE
You don't whant to blend both free and press juice together, why ?


Seb,

If for nothing else than for my own education, my plan is to ferment separately 23 liters of free run/light press and the pressed juice, whatever volume that may be. The resulting finished wine (free run) after all of the racking would be 19 liters per batch.
I would be using a double ratchet press.
I have read numerous reports of the harsher properties of the grape being brought out during the press, and I would like that control of deciding how much of it to add to the free run wine in order to meet whatever goal(s) I set for that batch.

So, it seems that 125 lbs of grape will give me 23 liters of free run, plus an additional amount of free run for topping up, as well as an unknown amount of pressed wine, right? I am only trying to nail this down in order to decide if I need additional odd sized carboys this fall (other than 5, 6 and 6.5 gallon). On another thread, I mentioned that I was planning on buying 500 lbs of grapes this year, 5 different varieties for 5 19 liter batches (final volume). I suppose I need to increase that amount to ~600 lbs. in order to utilize my 5 gallon carboys. I imagine I'll need either several 1 gallon jugs or a lesser amount of 2.5 gallon carboys for the press juice.

Thank you for your reply and wisdom! luxhello.gif

Steve
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#9 Seb

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Posted 27 July 2004 - 07:11 PM

QUOTE (stevec @ Jul 27 2004, 06:50 PM)
So, it seems that 125 lbs of grape will give me 23 liters of free run, plus an additional amount of free run for topping up, as well as an unknown amount of pressed wine, right?

Yes, you should get around 23 of free run juice and around 7-8 L of press juice. The maximum juice you can get from your double ratchet press ( the same as mine ) is 35 L if you are making a slow and complete press to a dry pomace.

Your idea of completing fermentation of both free run and press juice separately is a good experience and good way of doing things but I can guess that you will soon ( maybe next year ) end up blending all the juice together as you will not see a big difference. And, you surely don't whant to put all this press wine in the drain wink.gif The press wine is not that harsh except if you put to much force/stress on the press. A good "press" with a ratchet press is a "press" that is very slow with lot's of pauses to let the wine flow easely. Don't urge thing and don't worry about the oxydation at that moment.
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#10 stevec

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Posted 27 July 2004 - 08:20 PM

[quote]you will soon ( maybe next year ) end up blending all the juice together as you will not see a big difference.[/quote]

I sure hope you are right, Seb ! Sure would make this much easier to handle. You say that there is not a big difference. Does this mean that you actually notice a difference to the positive or negative? What is your experience with the difference(s)?
I guess I should note that I'll be using vinifera in this project.

[quote]And, you surely don't whant to put all this press wine in the drain[/quote]

One thing that I can absolutely, unequivocally say is that this would never happen! laugh.gif

[quote]The press wine is not that harsh except if you put to much force/stress on the press.[/quote]

I guess I don't know what "too much force" is. Do you mean to go slowly, but end up (eventually) torquing it so it can't be turned any more? Is there a "stop point" prior to this?

[quote]A good "press" with a ratchet press is a "press" that is very slow with lot's of pauses to let the wine flow easely. Don't urge thing and don't worry about the oxydation at that moment. [/quote]

This is what I've read. The first phase of the "patience" syndrome needed in this obsession o'mine! tongue.gif

Thank you very much Seb. The pieces of this puzzle are finally beginning to make some sense.

Steve
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#11 breumyster

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 02:43 AM

QUOTE (stevec @ Jul 27 2004, 08:46 PM)
I guess I don't know what "too much force" is.  Do you mean to go slowly, but end up (eventually) torquing it so it can't be turned any more?  Is there a "stop point" prior to this?

With a manual press the only way to become accustomed to the right "stopping point" is experience with the press in question. You sort of begin to "know" by feel when you've expressed the maximum juice and it's time to clear the basket and start a new cycle. I know this sounds kind of nebulous, but it's the best way I know to describe it. Each time you exert pressure on the cake, the yield will be less and less, and it's not worth taking a chance on breaking the press for a few more drops of juice.

The end result of long, tight press cyles is more tannins (harsher wine), which can be remedied if need be, but is better avoided if possible.

Maybe Seb has a better explanation, but I'd have to say it's mostly "feel".

And yes, go slowly. Wait until the run has slowed to just a trickle before adding more pressure.

#12 Seb

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 07:06 AM

Breumyster has explain it very well. The way to press correctly is to apply some pressure until the juice begin to flow and than stop and wait until no more juice are coming out. Then repeat to apply pressure slowly until the wine flow out again and...stop, wait and so on. You need to stop the press when you need to crank the press many time to extract some little juice of it. Then it is better ( if you have the time and space ) to take out all the compacted pomace and put it back again( after you had broken the compacted pomace in many pieces, sorry i don't really know how to explain that in english correctly, hope you can figured it out ) in the press for an other press cycle. You can do only one press cycle or as much as 3 to extract all the juice to a final complete dry pomace. Personnaly, when i press i have around 1500lbs of grapes to press and i don't have the time/patience to do that, i only made one very long and slow press until the flow is reduce to his minimum, then i empty the press and start an other one with new grapes. Just a note but important : to work properly your press need to be almost full or you will need lot's of wood insert to increase the height of the pomace.

I think that for a home winemaker the best luxury tools you can buy is a bladder press. When a ratchet press take 1-2 hrs for a press cycle it will only take 20-25min. and the quality of the wine will be better. The only drawback is that it is sooo pricey! Right now, i need, humm should say i would like to have a filter machine and a bladder press but i can only wait, wait and wait until i can find the money.
Sébastien Mailloux
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#13 stevec

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 08:46 AM

Thanks a bunch, guys. I think I've got it now.
I've been eyeing those bladder presses, too. I'm just not sure I want (or need) to part with >$1,000 right now.

Seb, your English is just fine. I understand what you explained. Is this where the harshness comes from, the second or third "cycle"? Or is it also seen on the first "cycle"?

Sorry about so many questions.

Thank you both again.

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#14 Seb

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 09:02 AM

No problem with the questions Steve, we are so many members here that it certainly helps others that don't necessarely ask.

The harshness come from a wrong pressing technique not from a moment or cycle. You will get harsh wine if you press too fast and if you apply too much pressure on the pomace, I mean if you are trying to extract all the juice from one single press cycle and in a short period. Doing two press cycle is ok but three begin to be excessive from what i've heard ( as I said i only made one slow single press cycle ). Of course the last quantity of wine you will extract from the pomace will be more harsh. But, even if you get some little press wine blend to the free run wine, this will not affect the wine overall result and you will maybe not even detect the difference when blended. The only thing is that harsh wine need more time to mellow and become good.
Sébastien Mailloux
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#15 RTL

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 09:25 AM

Seb-
QUOTE
No problem with the questions Steve, we are so many members here that it certainly helps others that don't necessarely ask.


Great series! These are very specific questions that I have been thinking about. Great input/info from Seb for those of us who are making the leap into fresh grapes in a few weeks. And good questions from Steve.

Thanks alot!

Rick




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