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Percent Alcohol Calculation


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#1 dagobob

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 06:52 AM

Does anyone have an alcohol conversion formula that takes into consideration a yeast's ethanol conversion?
That is, "grams of sugar utilized per 1% ethanol yield" based on a starting BRIX ?

Thanks

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#2 D&S

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 07:27 AM

QUOTE (dagobob @ Oct 8 2009, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does anyone have an alcohol conversion formula that takes into consideration a yeast's ethanol conversion?
That is, "grams of sugar utilized per 1% ethanol yield" based on a starting BRIX ?

Thanks

What is it that you are trying to do? There is a theoretical conversion of :

180g sugar -> 88g CO2 + 92g EtOH (51.1% on a w/w basis) BUT this does not account for the 5% or so of substrate used for new cell growth and other metabolites.







#3 dagobob

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 09:30 AM

QUOTE (D&S @ Oct 8 2009, 08:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What is it that you are trying to do? There is a theoretical conversion of :

180g sugar -> 88g CO2 + 92g EtOH (51.1% on a w/w basis) BUT this does not account for the 5% or so of substrate used for new cell growth and other metabolites.

The data sheet on some yeasts that I'm considering lists the "grams of sugar utilised per 1% ethanol yield."
one extreme for one yeast is 18.3 grams ...
and the other extreme for another yeast is 15.5 grams ...


Knowing this, I figure I could more accurately calculate my final %alcohol, know my starting and ending Specific Gravities (if I had the formula)

Thanks
Bob

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#4 Andy in SoCal

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 09:50 AM

As a rule of thumb you can use 0.6 alc/brix as your conversion ratio.

ie, 25B must x 0.6 = around 15% alc.

Close enough for goverment work!

Andy
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#5 dagobob

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 09:53 AM

QUOTE (Andy in SoCal @ Oct 8 2009, 11:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As a rule of thumb you can use 0.6 alc/brix as your conversion ratio.

ie, 25B must x 0.6 = around 15% alc.

Close enough for goverment work!

Andy

I hear you Andy, and normally I would agree since the rule of thumb is probably based on the average conversion rate of yeasts. However, the yeast that I'm considering (Maurivin cool.gif is touted as having a very low conversion rate, and useful for high BRIX grapes. I'd like to know how much difference that makes. This could be useful information.

Bob

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#6 Andy in SoCal

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 10:39 AM

QUOTE (dagobob @ Oct 8 2009, 09:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hear you Andy, and normally I would agree since the rule of thumb is probably based on the average conversion rate of yeasts. However, the yeast that I'm considering (Maurivin B) is touted as having a very low conversion rate, and useful for high BRIX grapes. I'd like to know how much difference that makes. This could be useful information.

Bob

Bob, can you contact Maruivin?

Andy
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#7 gregorio

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:28 AM

Hi Bob,
The number is not exact nor reproducable but some yeast are more efficient than others. One of the classes I took described all kinds of nutrient and other factors that will impact the outcome.

The Aussies did a test (Maurivin is Australian, no?) a couple years ago. It is on AWRI and I think it is on ASEV someplace but if I remember, the difference between the most efficient and the least is a swing of about 2.5g per liter for every 1% alcohol. Something like 15.75-18.25 g/L. I think they said expected average yeast consumption is about 17 g/L for 1% but I usually see the generally accepted number that most people use is 18. Most of our alcohol yeilds are a little lower at 19 g/L.

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#8 gregorio

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:32 AM

I think this might be helpful

http://www.mauriviny...hanol_Yield.pdf
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#9 dagobob

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:35 AM

QUOTE (gregorio @ Oct 8 2009, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think this might be helpful

http://www.mauriviny...hanol_Yield.pdf

HaHa, that's the data sheet that I'm basing my question on !!
Still doesn't answer what % of alcohol I can expect given a starting and ending gravity for each yeast.

Bob

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#10 WineMan2008

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:38 AM

QUOTE (dagobob @ Oct 8 2009, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hear you Andy, and normally I would agree since the rule of thumb is probably based on the average conversion rate of yeasts. However, the yeast that I'm considering (Maurivin B) is touted as having a very low conversion rate, and useful for high BRIX grapes. I'd like to know how much difference that makes. This could be useful information.

Bob

So what you are saying is if I have a high brix reading of say 29, like I did this week, I can use a certain yeast that would ferment to -2 brix and yet not have a high alcohol wine. This sounds great.

Steve

#11 gregorio

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 12:02 PM

QUOTE (dagobob @ Oct 8 2009, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HaHa, that's the data sheet that I'm basing my question on !!
Still doesn't answer what % of alcohol I can expect given a starting and ending gravity for each yeast.

Bob



Hmm...check my math. 1.11 SG is 300 g/L or thereabouts. According to them, if using Maurivin B, you get 16.44%, UCD522 would be 19%! None of our ferments using mostly Lallemand products ever get close to these alcohol numbers. 1.11 SG would get us about 15.25% using BDX or AMH.

Now you have me thinking! smile.gif
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#12 dagobob

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 12:16 PM

QUOTE (WineMan2008 @ Oct 8 2009, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So what you are saying is if I have a high brix reading of say 29, like I did this week, I can use a certain yeast that would ferment to -2 brix and yet not have a high alcohol wine. This sounds great.

Steve

That's the way they explain Maurivin B yeast. What I don't know is exactly how much lower. Roughly I can say about 20-30% lower alcohol yield. Also, check out the Maurvin B ability to eat malic acid. Some may say "so what, I do a MLF anyways", but if the yeast eats a big chunk of the malic during fermentation, then the MLF could be complete faster. That's a HUGE benefit!!

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#13 Andy in SoCal

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 12:34 PM

QUOTE (dagobob @ Oct 8 2009, 11:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's the way they explain Maurivin B yeast. What I don't know is exactly how much lower. Roughly I can say about 20-30% lower alcohol yield. Also, check out the Maurvin B ability to eat malic acid. Some may say "so what, I do a MLF anyways", but if the yeast eats a big chunk of the malic during fermentation, then the MLF could be complete faster. That's a HUGE benefit!!

This is quite exciting stuff.

What does the yeast produce in place of the 20-30% alc?

Andy
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#14 gregorio

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 12:37 PM

Do we really want to know? 11doh.gif

QUOTE (Andy in SoCal @ Oct 8 2009, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is quite exciting stuff.

What does the yeast produce in place of the 20-30% alc?

Andy

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#15 dagobob

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 12:44 PM

QUOTE (Andy in SoCal @ Oct 8 2009, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is quite exciting stuff.

What does the yeast produce in place of the 20-30% alc?

Andy

The datasheet say "metabolites other than ethanol".
There's been a number of tests and research done on the performance of Maurivin B on various grapes.
It's pretty interesting; seems to perform well.

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