31 replies to this topic

[SouthernVine]

I have heard that grapes need to be pressed immediately after they are picked, and therefore it is not recommended to purchase grapes from California and have them shipped to your door, since they will be a week old and will make a poor wine. Should I forget about ordering grapes and just stick to wine kits? I wonder if anyone has ever done a test and made wine from the same batch of grapes, made exactly the same, but one batch pressed immediately and one batch pressed a week later and tested the difference in quality. Perhaps I am just being too much of a wine snob, desiring to make the perfect wine, even though I don't live in California.

[mtsec]

SouthernVine, I have seen wineries leave grapes sitting around for a week before processing. I don't think it would hurt. I have used grapes that have been frozen for over a year. White grapes need to be crushed and pressed to remove juice from skins, ASAP to make a prettier white wine. The longer white grape juice sits on the skins, it will darken, after crushing. Reds are crushed and allowed to sit on the skins to obtain a richer color. You might be able to check with your local farmers market. Some people order wine grapes from them. Depending on where you live, they might have them in stock, or know where they can get them. May be cheaper than having them delivered to your door. I feel the rewards are worth it, versus a kit. Good luck, keep us posted, Mike

[SouthernVine]

Thanks for your reply! That is what I was hoping to hear. Unfortunately, there are no farmers growing grapes where I live. I would have to drive about 5 or 6 hours north to find one. So I was thinking of ordering some grapes and having them shipped to my door. I just wanted to make sure it was worth spending the money on first.

Derrick

[Joel]

Another good thing to look at, is that if they're shipped frozen, you'll have better flavor and color extraction when fermenting I think.

I think that's right... It could also be considered an "ice wine".

Glad to have you here in our forum.

Cheers,
joel

[P Cuthbert]

Hi Southern Vine;
If you have an Italian or Portuguese community close to you, you may be able to get your grapes "fresh off the truck" through one of their stores. They will also be able to give you some better information on the difference in quality compared to frozen grapes or frozen juice (not reccomended to buy juice any other way).

Joel; Unfortunately "ice" wine has a number of qualifications. It is a naturally extremely sweet wine that comes from grapes that are left on the vine to dehydrate and then are picked and pressed only when the temperature is at or below minus 10 Celsius (15 degrees F)

I am sure you knew that, but there may be others who are not aware of the exact qualifications.

Pat

[Joel]

Thanks Pat,

but no, I didn't really know the actual classifications of ice wine. So, are frozen grapes good to use? WHat about when I got my frozen blackberries or mulberries?

thanks
joel

[P Cuthbert]

Joel;

I am pretty sure that frozen fruit is good to use. My country wines made from different fruits are all made from frozen fruit. Freezing breaks the cell walls of the fruit and this allows more of the juice to be extracted with less effort.

Ice wine is generally made in the cooler climates from reisling grapes. The grapes are left on the vines well into winter when the temperatures drop enough to freeze the fruit. I am not sure of why, but there is a higher concentration of sugars in the fruit at that time. Perhaps the water component of the juice is not as readily available and remains in the pulp.

There are vintners in the area (Okanagan Valley) who will leave a portion of their crop on the vine with the hopes that the birds will not get too much and then sit waiting for the temperature to get right.

Why take the chance? Well, when you consider that Ice Wine sells for about $50 per half bottle it makes economic sense. It is a gamble though that has paid off around here though.

Pat

[Hippie]

Started a Grand Cru Gewurtztraminer this past wed. morning. My first white kit. It started real slow and is now fermenting at a moderate/slow rate. Anyone else have experience with Gewurtztraminer kits? I am just wondering if it is always this slow. Starting S.G. 1.076. This is the lowest S.G. I have ever started with. Maybe it is just me.

[P Cuthbert]

HI Glenvall;

White wines are generally lower in SG. 1.076 is quite reasonable. It will ferment to about 11.5%. The Gewertzraminer is a wine that finishes just off dry. Serve it well chilled qnd it makes a very nice drink on a hot day.

As to the slow start, it is possible that the yeast in the kit was a bit older, and needed to get started. As long as you have some activity in the first 24 hours or so, it shouuld not be a problem.

Also, if you can, you might wish to ferment your whites at a cooler temperature than you do your reds. This will allow the complexities of the wine to develop thouroughly. 65 degrees F should be fine. Most likely the yeast in the kit is a version of champagne yeast (Lalvin 1118 or Red Star Pasteur). This yeast will ferment nicely at temperatures as low as 55 degrees F.

Good luck and good tasting.

Pat

[Hippie]

Thanks for your reply, Pat. I have made alot of red and fruit wines, but this is my first white. It is the slowest starter ever by far. I thought maybe it was the low S.G. I contemplated chaptilization at first, but decided not since it is for my wife anyway. With the exception of Scuppernong, I usually only drink red wine. I like an alcohol content of 14 - 16%.

[P Cuthbert]

It is always possible to increase the alcohol level of your wine by adding dextrose solution to the wine as it ferments. A rule of thumb is that to increase alcohol by 1% in a 23 litre batch, you would add 1 pound of dextrose in solution. This is done when your SG reaches about 1.010. Stir it in well, and fermentation will continue.

I would not recommend adding more than 1 pound of dextrose at a time. When using the champagne yeasts, you can get your alcohol up to about 20% by adding small doses of dextrose. Some of the other yeasts will not tolerate that level of alcohol and can be used instead to provide a sweeter wine with a lower alcohol content.

Pat

[Hippie]

:blink: Pat, the kit came with a 7 gram pack of yeast, unlabeled. Do you have an idea what strain it is? I just like to know what yeast I am using! thanks

[P Cuthbert]

Hi Glenvall;

I am not sure what the yeast in the package was. I think it most likely to be a champagne yeast. The only way to be sure would be to contact Spagnols and give them the ID code from the box. They should be able to confirm the type of yeast for you that way.

I would contact Dinesh directly rather than through the Spagnols forum though.

Pat

[Donna]

Pat are you trying to say that the only way to buy grapes/juice is frozen? I can tell you that some vineyards refuse to ship grapes/juice by common carrier and unless you drive there to pick it up they won't ship.

Southern Vine I don't mean to sound intrusive, but where do you live? If you are somewhat close to me, I do know of a vineyard close by that may have some juice for sale. It is vidal and the last that they will have available this year.

[P Cuthbert]

Hi Donna;

Welcome to the forum. Look forward to having your input and thoughts.

It is my understanding that if one wishes to buy juice, it is best to get frozen. This way, it is preserved at its freshest. It will not deteriorate during transport, and will not allow the wee beasties that we don't want gettign a head start.

As for Grapes, I think that if you are close to a source, it is best to get them fresh from the vine, otherwise buy the pressed juice which includes skins (for Red) or no skins for white.

If using fruit for wine, I found that it is best to freeze it first and then allow to thaw before crushing. Freezizng breaks the cell walls and allows the juice to be more easily and completely extracted.

Hope this helps;

Pat