18 replies to this topic

[Gilles]

Newbe question here

At what time in the process are you to check TA to make some ajustment

Before after fermentation?
At racking?

Gilles

[WayneC]

Newbe question here

At what time in the process are you to check TA to make some ajustment

Before after fermentation?
At racking?

Gilles

Definitely before fermentation. How much depends on the style/type of wine you are making. You should also check it along the way and might need to make a final adjustment at the end.

Wayne

[dadojay]

Newbe question here

At what time in the process are you to check TA to make some ajustment

Before after fermentation?
At racking?

Gilles

Before fermentation, but you can adjust before bottling with citric to increase mouth feel.

[Hidden Valley Wine]

Newbe question here

At what time in the process are you to check TA to make some ajustment

Before after fermentation?
At racking?

Gilles

I would also say before but it may also depend on the juice. I recently bought some juice concentrates that would not hardly ferment with the acid added up front. I call the supplier and they said that you add it after. Now dont get me wrong this is the only time I have done it that way but with there juice it literally wouldnt ferment with the acid up front and still to this day I dont know why. But I have made wine with 6 different brands and this was the only one that I had a hard time with so I would still say to add it before fermentation. It would also be helpfull if you gave more info on what you making, kits, concentrates,juice packs ect. Most kits dont require checking the TA up front. They are already pre set so you dont have to mess with it. You probably aready new this but I thought I would mention it. Hope this helps

[Gilles]

I would also say before but it may also depend on the juice. I recently bought some juice concentrates that would not hardly ferment with the acid added up front. I call the supplier and they said that you add it after. Now dont get me wrong this is the only time I have done it that way but with there juice it literally wouldnt ferment with the acid up front and still to this day I dont know why. But I have made wine with 6 different brands and this was the only one that I had a hard time with so I would still say to add it before fermentation. It would also be helpfull if you gave more info on what you making, kits, concentrates,juice packs ect. Most kits dont require checking the TA up front. They are already pre set so you dont have to mess with it. You probably aready new this but I thought I would mention it. Hope this helps

My question was for in general, just purchased an acid test kit and had no clue when the test should be done,
or any ajustment could be made.
I have
Shiraz from J spagnol in carboy 5 gal
Pinot noir in Carboy 5 gal
Welch grape juice in primary 3 gal
A Beet wine aging in cold room 2 gal
A Apple wine 1 gal also aging in cold room

Gilles

[mokadir]

There is no need to check acid in a kit, unless you are doing it for practice - they are already acid balanced, so should not need any acid adjustments.

Generally, with wine from juice or fruit (including grapes), you test before fermentation. That way you can change the acids before starting. Often with the grapes I get, I need to add acid to make the final product more stable and less flat tasting ( try to get pH below 3.6 and TA 6-7 range if possible). Some of the grapes I get have a starting pH of ~ 3.8-4.0 with a TA ~ 4- 4.5. So adding acid will help make a better final product. In other wines the pH may be too low and acids too high - this would make a wine challenging to start fermentation and may be too tart to drink when finally finished. You can lower acids in this type of must before starting. Prefermentation additions also give the added acid more time to integrate into the wine.

Often, I will measure pH and TA again well after fermentation is done (both alcoholic and malolactic if I'm doing it) so I can know whether it should be stable and how much sulfites should be added, etc. It helps me decide how much I can tweak it, if necessary.

[Luc Volders]

With kits there is no need to test as the manufacturer has done
all the work for you.

With fruit wines you test before you start fermentation,
so you can make all adjustments needed before the yeast start
to do their job.

Luc

[ShareMuscadineWine]

I have made over 120 gallons of non-kit wines. The muscadine grape wine I make with higher pound per gallon concentration seems to take seven days or longer to ferment to dry. I Also noticed many people on this site making hard lemonade had problems with fermentation. After reading those posts I started monitoring pH during fermentation on my batch of hard lemonade, a batch of grapefruit wine, and a batch of muscadine/blueberry wine and adjusted pH before pitching yeast to read about 3.50 for all three types. Pitched yeast and when the must pH changed to 2.70 or less and the temperature was not increasing with yeast activity, I changed it to 2.90 pH or more. The temperature and yeast activity increased. The fermantation was real fast in the grapefruit wine with 15% top alcohol potential for the yeast I was using in only four days. The hard lemonade was also done in 4 days with 8.9% potential alcohol and the muscadine wine, treated the same and it finished to dry in a hurry, so I can't help but to wonder if these changes in pH may have contributed to a faster fermentation in high acid fruit. I wish I would have split the batch to test the difference in fermentation speed. Has anyone monitored fermenting must pH in this manner?

[Gilles]

Now I know how and when to use the acid test kit,

The thing is everywhere I see acid test, I see PH

What would be an inexpensive PH test kit?
Any recomendation?


Thanks, Gilles

[mokadir]

I don't know that there is an inexpensive pH "kit" that is accurate. I purchased a pH probe for ~ $40 4 years ago and I'm still using it. So, it's really pretty cheap. You do have to calibrate it before each use to make sure it is accurate. Every time you turn it on, you have to recalibrate it. I don't turn it off until I'm finished for the day. I haven't needed to change the battery yet after many hours ( dozens of hous) of use over the 4 years. That calibration solution is ~$1 for ~ 4-5 uses. I buy mine in little packets every year from the LHBS for a few dollars. I would say that it is an indispensible tool for me. I also use it for my acid measurements to measure the endpoint instead of using the phenolphthalein solution.

[Gilles]

I don't know that there is an inexpensive pH "kit" that is accurate. I purchased a pH probe for ~ $40 4 years ago and I'm still using it. So, it's really pretty cheap. You do have to calibrate it before each use to make sure it is accurate. Every time you turn it on, you have to recalibrate it. I don't turn it off until I'm finished for the day. I haven't needed to change the battery yet after many hours ( dozens of hous) of use over the 4 years. That calibration solution is ~$1 for ~ 4-5 uses. I buy mine in little packets every year from the LHBS for a few dollars. I would say that it is an indispensible tool for me. I also use it for my acid measurements to measure the endpoint instead of using the phenolphthalein solution.

Can you give me the brand and model?

Gilles

[mokadir]

Hanna Checker - it provides 0.01 reading. It says the accuracy is only .2 though. I tend to think it is better than that when I calibrate though. When I calibrate and retest later in the session, it always seems to "hold" the accuracy to within .01 or so.

Here is an example that I found on google - I have no idea about the vendor - but it is the meter that I have. I got it through an online wine supply place.

http://scientificson...hcd2=1234747099

[Spearfisherman]

With kits there is no need to test as the manufacturer has done
all the work for you.

With fruit wines you test before you start fermentation,
so you can make all adjustments needed before the yeast start
to do their job.

Luc

I am into year 2 of fruit winemaking. The first year, I just followed Jack Kellers recipes without testing acid & all my wines came out ok. Year 2, I started testing acid TA, and adjusting to @0.6 & I just tested about 6 batches that finished fermentation & now the acid is way high on all of them. They range from .8 - 1.2TA & have a major pucker factor. The onlything I can see is that when I am making my initial measurements, the fruit hasn't broken down enough to release all of it's acid. Now I have to figure out what will be the best way to decrease the acid.

[ShareMuscadineWine]

I use Potassium Bicarbonate because it is suited to raising wine pH after fermentation for these reasons:
A higher pH will balance an acidic wine; a higher pH will shift equilibrium to favor tartrate stabilization; a higher pH will encourage a malo-lactic fermentation to further deacidify the wine; it is best when used with high acid/high pH musts it works by combining with tartaric acid to form calcium tartrate.
Advantages: Material is inexpensive to purchase, it can reduce tartaric acid on average by 5.0 grams/liter (0.5%) without affecting wine quality.
The must will continue to drop acidity, to a lesser extent, during fermentation and it causes no problems with calcium tartrate precipitation in wine.
Must is more forgiving than wine and that is why fermentation kinetics favor must treatment over wine treatment.
But I do treat some wine just as it reaches dryness if the pH drops below 3.15 because I like the flavor better that way.

[Hammered]

Hanna Checker - it provides 0.01 reading. It says the accuracy is only .2 though. I tend to think it is better than that when I calibrate though. When I calibrate and retest later in the session, it always seems to "hold" the accuracy to within .01 or so.

Here is an example that I found on google - I have no idea about the vendor - but it is the meter that I have. I got it through an online wine supply place.

http://scientificson...hcd2=1234747099

I have a Hanna Checker and got a nice bench top Milwaukee pH meter for Christmas. The Milwaukee has an accuracy to within .01. I checked the Hanna on several samples a couple weeks ago against the Milwaukee and they never deviated more than .05.