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Poll: Gum arabic. How do you feel about it? (29 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you use gum arabic in your wines?

  1. No, I would never use it. This is like cheating. (10 votes [34.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.48%

  2. I haven't used it but I would. (17 votes [58.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.62%

  3. Yes, I've used it. (2 votes [6.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.90%

  4. I use it all the time. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

What do you think of the use of gum arabic in commercial wines?

  1. It doesn't bother me (9 votes [31.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.03%

  2. I can live with it but I'd like to know if my favorite winery uses it (12 votes [41.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.38%

  3. It bothers me a bit (4 votes [13.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.79%

  4. I'm appalled by the practice. (4 votes [13.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.79%

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#1 D&S

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 07:36 PM

The most recent issue of WineMaker mag has an article by Dan Pambianchi called The Sensorial Profile. In it the author frequently recommends adding gum arabic to wines for enhancing mouthfeel and softening perceived acidity. How does the group feel about this practice and do you use it in your own wines? There does not seem to be any labeling requirements for wineries to disclose the use of gum arabic.



#2 bzac

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 07:42 AM

I am not sure where i stand on the labeling issue , but I try to use as little additives of anykind that I can.
i sometimes use biolees but only when the wine needs this kind of intervention.( softening percieved acidity and increasing mouthfeel) I have used tannins a few times but never realy liked the results .
i prefer blending with other wines as my main means of intervention.

I read the pambianachi article last night, can't say i agree with all of it. Adding gum arabic is also not a very commonly used additive or intervention
it does give some mouthfeel as DP suggests , but as far as I rememeber it is mostly used to deal with the problem of iron turbidity (someone correct me if I am wrong) and is also sometimes used to give tank carbonated cheap sparkling wines more sparkle.(helps hold the gas in solution better)

i am a big fan of his book and most of his articles ,
but i am not a fan of his wines to tell the truth , Cadenza wines are not my favorite of all the commercial wines coming out of niagra.

id probably go with one of the more commonly used yeast derived products to add body and mouthfeelthan the much older technique of useing gum arabic.

Z


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#3 red_feet

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:06 PM

I've never used gum arabic, but I have no problem with it. It's a natural product, the same as oak staves/cubes, Biolees, etc., etc. I very rarely make kit wines, but I've added raisins and bananas to a kit for improved mouthfeel. For my grape winemaking, I've been doing 'sur lies' aging for the improvements it's supposed to provide.
People have used oak barrels for how long? And they've also stored wine in wineskins instead of bottles. It's all a process. As far as I'm concerned, if what is used is natural and improves the wine, why not? wink.gif

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#4 Brad B.

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:09 PM

QUOTE (bzac @ Jan 20 2009, 09:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Adding gum arabic is also not a very commonly used additive or intervention

I did a quick google search on this subject last night and an article ( http://www.winesurf....n...=40&lang=en ) came up that discusses a survey on gum arabic of Italian winemakers. 10/39 winemakers returned the survey. On the question of "would you reckon its use is quite common," all the winemakers said it was very widely used.

I suspect it is more commonly used in commercial settings than the winemakers and wine buyers want to admit. Just like colorants additives, there is pressure to produce a product that meets certain characteristics--mouthfeel being one of them.

I have no personal experience with the stuff, but I'm not against doing a side by side trial to see the differences. If I liked the results enough, I might use it. I don't get all uppity about being a purist, within reason. I mean, I still think I should use grapes to make grape wine. My high horse is pretty low, and given the other things we do to make our wine good, gum arabic isn't going to get me all worked up. Your mileage may, and probably does, vary.
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#5 markdoms

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:59 PM

I find this general topic of additives fascinating and there are many diverse opinions out there. Many of the additives are "natural" products and sometimes are used to make up for deficiencies in our grapes/wines; not everyone has access to the best grapes and equipment, so why not get a little help from these products? I think I'll do some bench trails with gum arabic and see what happens. Good luck,
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#6 RSG

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 01:49 PM

Well I haven't got my Feb/Mar issue of WM yet so I have yet to read the article but I'd have to agree with most here, we add several other components both organic and in-organic so why not Gum Arabic. Just another tool in the arsenal.

I have to wonder if this was one of the secrets of Two Buck Chucks success out of California biggrin.gif
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#7 grapenut

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 02:25 PM

Has anyone here used this product? How much would be used per 23 liters ?

#8 Grapeshot

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 03:06 PM

QUOTE (grapenut @ Jan 20 2009, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has anyone here used this product? How much would be used per 23 liters ?



I've used it to add body and mouth feel to inexpensive kits - works!

Unlike bananas, that need to be added during fermentation, you can add this right before bottling.

And I found out about it on this forum (like so many other things!)

Liqui-Gum – Link: http://morewinemakin...arch?search=gum



#9 bzac

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 09:01 AM

QUOTE (markdoms @ Jan 20 2009, 02:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I find this general topic of additives fascinating and there are many diverse opinions out there. Many of the additives are "natural" products and sometimes are used to make up for deficiencies in our grapes/wines; not everyone has access to the best grapes and equipment, so why not get a little help from these products? I think I'll do some bench trails with gum arabic and see what happens. Good luck,
Mark.



I am not anti additives but my stance os the use of them should be balanced with a "respect the grape" approach.
I've tasted far too many amateur wines lately (and lots of commercial wines too) where I felt the winemaker was so excited about using their new toys (additives, tannins, yeast derived products, oak spirals) that they lost sight of what those grapes had to offer and more or less ruined the wine's potential.

There is a law of diminishing returns with additives .
And there are better ones to use than gum arabic. IMO, Gum arabic is an old technique largely used in bulk wines .
a quick look through Scott Labs catalog to see the latest well researched products will clearly demonstrate this.

Z


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#10 Brad B.

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 03:54 PM

Scott Labs also sells gum arabic, under their name "Stabivin." Two varieties.
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#11 bzac

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 04:00 PM

intersting , but look at what they say about it.
Another thing to ask , why would there be legal limits on its commercial use?
I'm not saying it won't have a potentialy positive impact on wine , I do however think that it is not realy the best product to use for increasing mouthfeel , think of it as old tech.
Z



STABIVIN #15480 1 kg
Gum Arabic for Prevention of Colloidal Sedimentation #15481 5 kg

Stabivin is a filtered solution of purified gum derived from Acacia trees. This gum serves as a colloidal protector in wine. It inhibits turbidity and natural colloidal sediments without stripping flavors or body. In white or rosé wines, Stabivin inhibits copper casse. In red wines, Stabivin inhibits color drop out or iron casse related to sediments. Add to the wine after filtration just prior to bottling basing levels on winemaker trials and preference. One kilogram of liquid Stabivin is equal to one liter.


Recommended Dosage:
250ppm (25 mL/hL) 908 mL/1000 gal

Stabivin Tech Sheet (PDF)


STABIVIN SP
Gum Arabic for Prevention of Colloidal
Sedimentation and for Soft Palate Enhancement

Stabivin SP reacts mechanically in much the same way as Stabivin. Due to a unique preparation method, in addition to colloidal protection, Stabivin SP contributes a perception of sweetness and softness on the palate. Add to the wine after filtration just prior to bottling basing levels on winemaker trials and preference. One kilogram of liquid Stabivin is equal to one liter.

Note: These gum arabic products may also help reduce the risk of colloidal deposits collecting in the bottle in wines bottled without filtration.


Recommended Dosage:
Legal Dosage 0.8 mL/L (80 mL/hL) 3.0 L/1000 gal

Stabivin SP Tech Sheet (PDF)


NOTE: The manufacturer's (Laffort's) recommended dose for Stabivin and Stabivin SP exceeds the current legal US limits for gum arabic additions. Gum arabic is a GRAS product and has been used at the suggested levels in Europe for several years. However, you may use Stabivin and Stabivin SP at the elevated recommended levels ONLY after requesting and receiving permission from the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau. A sample letter is provided below.


Subsequent use will require sending another letter and waiting for an additional response before use.
These procedures may change in the future depending on the commercial response for the products at these dosage levels. We will keep you apprised of any future developments.



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#12 Nanook37

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:49 PM

I have used Liqui-Gum a number of times and it does give a wine a certain smoothness that I like in certain wines - I used it on a Cellar Craft Two Valley Merlot that won best red wine out of 50 vinifera entries at the Kansas City Cellarmasters Contest...

#13 Brad B.

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 09:10 PM

QUOTE (bzac @ Jan 21 2009, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Another thing to ask , why would there be legal limits on its commercial use?

The TTB limits many things when it comes to commercial winemaking. For a time, you had to get a letter from the ATF to use lysozyme. If I recall correctly, you still can't legally use salt (as in a pinch of salt before doing your egg white fining) in your commercial wine in the U.S. Remember, we are talking about bureaucrats in a huge government, whose highest priority is justifying their taxpayer provided job everyday.

I suppose at some point in time someone did a lab study on rats and overdosed them on gum arabic. The rats died, so now there is a limit on how much can go into our wine. It's the government, and they are here to help!

I don't know if gum arabic is the right way to increase palate softness, roundness, enhanced mouthfeel, whatever you want to call it. But there seems to be a demand for it among the commercial winemaking community, and I suspect it is not just Earnest & Julio and Paul Masson putting it into their jug wine.

Edited to add: looks like a pinch of salt is ok with egg white fining. But there are 3 pages in the CFR's that limit materials that can be added to wine, so you get the point.
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#14 bzac

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:32 PM

sometimes having limits or restrictions on what can be used is a good thing. Austrian diethylene glycol wine scandal anyone?




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