18 replies to this topic

[croat]

Per acre of grapes grown what is the final/end total of bottles per acre?
Thanks,

croat

[Crazy Run Ranch]

Its probably easier to reply with lbs./vine so you can adjust for your row spacing. I would say 5 - 12 lbs of grapes per vine are the extremes. More typical would be 6 - 9 lbs. per vine.

[voon]

So if it takes about 95 to 110 pounds of grapes to make six gallons of wine, then you need about 10 vines per 28 bottles. That's assuming 28 bottles is typical finished output from a six gallon batch.

Spacing of rows and vines probably varies a lot. What is a typical spacing between vines?

I'm trying to figure out what a one acre vineyard might produce given a spacing between rows of 10 feet. That should be enough spacing between rows to avoid overcrowding, I'd think.

[Wade's Wines]

As to vines per acre, Double A Vineyard has a good chart.
Here's a few spacings and densities, just to show you how much it changes totals:

3x3=4840 vines per acre
6x8=908
8x8=681
6x9=807
8x9=605
9x9=538
6x10=726
7x10=622
8x10=545
9x10=484

So 3x3 is 10x what 9x10 spacing is.
Your local environment plays a huge role here. I'm using 8x9 here in Tennessee with our high humidity and accompanying problems. If you lived where you only get 15" of rain annually you could go with a very close spacing. The other factor is equipment size. I spaced my rows at 9' apart because that worked for my tractor. I've still snagged my trellis once or twice. I could have gone as tight as 7' row spacing, but I probably would have snagged more than a few times. Of course, my tractor's a back-hoe, so a different tractor might have less navigational problems.
Some Folks estimate a gallon of wine per vine. That might be high for others.
Wade

[voon]

Thanks, Wade. There is a wealth of good information on that Double A Vineyard site. I bookmarked it.

[croat]

Yea - great site and a potential for purchasing

So an acre planted 6x8 will yield 908 vines total. It seems that 1/2 gallon of wine per vine is a safe estimate. So if that's the case than the acre would yield 454 gallons of wine at full production.

454 gallons [US, liquid] = 1,718,576 milliliters
1,718,576.9 milliliters would yield 2,291 bottles of wine with no waste.

Yes ???

[gregorio]

Yea - great site and a potential for purchasing

So an acre planted 6x8 will yield 908 vines total. It seems that 1/2 gallon of wine per vine is a safe estimate. So if that's the case than the acre would yield 454 gallons of wine at full production.

454 gallons [US, liquid] = 1,718,576 milliliters
1,718,576.9 milliliters would yield 2,291 bottles of wine with no waste.

Yes ???

In most grape growing areas, the appropriate measurement of vine output is in tons per acre. You cannot expect to be accurate when using bottles in your ratio due to annual variances in press fractions caused by berry size and composition, not to mention winemaker preference. Tonnage per acre varies greatly by varietal and annual growing conditons but most importantly by desired quality. In most cases, lower yeilds will result in higher quality. There is usually a sweet spot that is unique at every site where decreases in yeild result in diminishing marginal returns.

Cabernet in our Estate vineyard on 8x10 quadrialteral trellis yeild about the same tonnage per acre as our 6x6 bilaterals. Of course, we keep the number of spurs per foot the same on all trellis systems so this makes sense.

[oldjenx]

Of course, we keep the number of spurs per foot the same on all trellis systems so this makes sense.

I believe that this point made by Greg is kind of profound. Given time for the vine root system to expand into the available space, and within reasonable limits, I doubt that the spacing between plants is relevant. Of course, reasonable limits might be around 10 feet for bunch grapes.

[gregorio]

Given time for the vine root system to expand into the available space, and within reasonable limits, I doubt that the spacing between plants is relevant.

There was a great UC Davis study at the Mondavi To Kalon vineyard that illustrated this point. I've been trying to find it for months but can't otherwise I'd post it. The study showed a sweet spot where vine density had little or no impact on yeild. There was a point where more vines did not mean more juice. In other words, just because you can cram 4500 vines in an acre vs. 450 does not mean you will get 10x the amount of grapes. Believe it or not, the greatest yeilds were at somewhat less than maximum density. Other factors need to be addressed like quality and usability. Where the sweet spots on all the independent variables cross is your ideal density.

[Wade's Wines]

Wow! Nice insight! It's like the canopy of the vineyard or rainforest is the same no matter how many trunks support the canopy. Very nice picture.
The other factor is airflow. Here in Tennessee you need all the airflow you can get to avoid mildew.
I have several Catawba vines, possibly the most vigorous vine in N. America, going into season 4... never thought I'd get there! They had a true canopy with grapes hanging below this year, everywhere! Wow! I think they could be on 15x15, maybe 20x20 and fill the canopy, plus hang grapes everywhere! Planting them on 4x4 certainly wouldn't produce any more grapes, and probably no better grapes. They're just vigorous and love to make beautiful grapes and lots of them!
I'm sure other varieties are different, but every variety probably has an ideal spacing in a specific environment. In CA one may need 4x4, in TN the same may need 8x8 and produce the same amount of grapes and BRIX.
What a great puzzle this planet is, hu!

[chrisvines]

Sorry to bring up old thread, Gregorio was this the article you were referring to?

Very interesting spacing comparison:

http://www.practical...t99/mondavi.htm

[gregorio]

Sorry to bring up old thread, Gregorio was this the article you were referring to?

Very interesting spacing comparison:

http://www.practical...t99/mondavi.htm

Yes, that artical is based on the ASEV study. I still can't find it!

[Brett C.]

There was a great UC Davis study at the Mondavi To Kalon vineyard that illustrated this point. I've been trying to find it for months but can't otherwise I'd post it. The study showed a sweet spot where vine density had little or no impact on yeild. There was a point where more vines did not mean more juice. In other words, just because you can cram 4500 vines in an acre vs. 450 does not mean you will get 10x the amount of grapes. Believe it or not, the greatest yeilds were at somewhat less than maximum density. Other factors need to be addressed like quality and usability. Where the sweet spots on all the independent variables cross is your ideal density.

I don't know if you've seen the vine spacing study by the American Vineyard Foundation, but I thought it was also interesting. Here's the link:
http://www.avf.org/s...afpdmgdbjggnpce
In case the link doesn't work, the study came out in their annual progress report for 2001 and is titled "Wine Grape Trellising and Vine Spacing Studies".
They looked at different trellising and with Chardonnay and different spacings with Syrah. They found that yield per foot of row length and total tons per acres was highest with a row spacing of between 7 & 9 feet. Several other things were checked as well, such as cluster weight, trunk diameter, etc.
Of course, even though the optimum spacing for Syrah was around 8 feet (best fit curve), the yield was still plenty good at 6 feet spacing.
Clusters per foot of row lenght dropped off sharply above 9 ft however.


Brett

[Wade's Wines]

Without reading the article, just what you posted, tons per acre isn't the best measure, quality of grapes and wine from them is. I'll take a look at the article now and see how badly I stuck my foot in my mouth!

[gregorio]

Thanks Brett. This hepls illustrate part of my point. There is an optimum range where the output variable (yeild in this study) remains fairly constant even though the input variable (density) is moving constantly.