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Pounds Of Grapes Per Gallon Of Must?


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#1 rwintle

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 07:01 AM

All,

Is there any agreed upon estimate for this? I"m looking to determine on average how many LBS of grapes it takes to make 1 Gallon of must.

This is to be used for a K-meta calculation sheet.

Thanks in advance!

--Rod

#2 Howie

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 07:12 AM

No hard and fast answer. Whites yield less than reds because they're harder to press. Also, it depends on the variety, but a good rule of thumb is 13-16 lbs. per gallon. My experience has been that a 50-55 lbs. bushel of Vidal or Steuben will yield about 3 1/2 gallons.
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#3 NorthernWiner

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 07:17 AM

It depends on the varietal.

It can take anywhere from 12 to 16 pounds of grapes to yield a gallon of wine. Juicy, thin-skinned grapes (e.g Pinot Noir, Zinfandel) would be on the lower end of that range, while thicker-skinned Cabernet or Petite Sirah will come out closer to the upper range.

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#4 MartyYule

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 07:30 AM

QUOTE (rwintle @ May 23 2008, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All,

Is there any agreed upon estimate for this? I"m looking to determine on average how many LBS of grapes it takes to make 1 Gallon of must.

This is to be used for a K-meta calculation sheet.

Thanks in advance!

--Rod

I think the question is not finished wine but pounds of grapes in a gallon of must

#5 MartyYule

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 07:38 AM

QUOTE (rwintle @ May 23 2008, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All,

Is there any agreed upon estimate for this? I"m looking to determine on average how many LBS of grapes it takes to make 1 Gallon of must.

This is to be used for a K-meta calculation sheet.

Thanks in advance!

--Rod

Maybe a different question might be more helpful " how many grams of kmeta to raise one pound of grapes to 45 ppm assuming you started at 0"

#6 gregorio

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:00 AM

Gene's on the right track. The others seemed to miss the question. It can vary but for most of our reds, we can expect that a ton of fresh grapes will yeild about 210-240 gallons of must which in turn yeilds about 120-130 gallons of finished wine. The variation comes from cluster size, stem size and ratio, amount of shatter, open vs. closed clusters, berry size, skin thickness, number of seeds, press pressure, etc.
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#7 NorthernWiner

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:04 AM

QUOTE (gregorio @ May 23 2008, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gene's on the right track. The others seemed to miss the question.

Well, I don't know. I assumed he was asking for the purpose of estimating the amount of liquid for any additions, not just metabisulphite.

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#8 gregorio

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:05 AM

QUOTE (NorthernWiner @ May 23 2008, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, I don't know. I assumed he was asking for the purpose of estimating additions.


He's trying to calculate how much SO2 to add at crush.
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#9 MartyYule

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:11 AM

I think if we know in grams the ppm for a pound of grapes we could create a calculator that would allow you to test the must for so2 and then decide if you wanted to raise the PPM of so2 to a certain level. using pound of grapes crushed as the factor. The most I use 1/2 teaspoon per 100 pounds of grapes (6.2 grams per teaspoon) however I know this formula when my hair was black but I do not know the resulting ppm.
Gene

#10 Peter Lynch

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:25 AM

QUOTE (MartyYule @ May 23 2008, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the question is not finished wine but pounds of grapes in a gallon of must
True but I think most calculate additions not on must volume but on estimated wine/solution volume as most addition charts/formula are based on volume of solution (as the volume added by non-suspended solids typically won't matter with solution additions). With clarified juice the difference is somewhat moot. Anyway, a decent lbs/gal ratio might be 13lbs/gal solution for red grapes and 16 lbs/gal solution for white grapes (assuming crush/immediate press and cold settling losses). Hope this helps a little. smileytoast.gif
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#11 MartyYule

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 09:02 AM

QUOTE (Peter Lynch @ May 23 2008, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
True but I think most calculate additions not on must volume but on estimated wine/solution volume as most addition charts/formula are based on volume of solution (as the volume added by non-suspended solids typically won't matter with solution additions). With clarified juice the difference is somewhat moot. Anyway, a decent lbs/gal ratio might be 13lbs/gal solution for red grapes and 16 lbs/gal solution for white grapes (assuming crush/immediate press and cold settling losses). Hope this helps a little. smileytoast.gif

If you approach this problem using anticipated wine, So could the calculation be based as follows considering an amount of anticipated wine, what amount in grams of K meta would achieve x amount of ppm in the must? Isn't the volume of the must mush greater that the volume of anticipated wine that is where I have the problem
Gene

#12 Peter Lynch

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 09:12 AM

QUOTE (MartyYule @ May 23 2008, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you approach this problem using anticipated wine, So could the calculation be based as follows considering an amount of anticipated wine, what amount in grams of K meta would achieve x amount of ppm in the must? Isn't the volume of the must mush greater that the volume of anticipated wine that is where I have the problem
Gene, sure, but what causes the bulk of the volume difference between the must and finished wine? I would say the skins, seeds, and stems (if any). Since these items add volume but are not part of the liquid solution I would say additions that are meant to dissolve in solution should not take these solids into account. This doesn't means these solids will be inert or non-reactive with soluble additives but you could always estimate a bit higher, say 10% (or your best guess), when adding solubles to must. As specifically related to must SO2 additions the goal is to retard unwanted organism growth in the period between crush and active fermentation. Other factors besides volume such as berry conditions, yeast used and volume added, temperature, PH, etc. can influence the amount to add as well. In the end, if going strictly by volume, I think additions based on estimated post press volume would generally work better then volume of must. smileytoast.gif
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#13 Doyle

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 09:31 AM

This is humorous to watch everyone try to figure out what Rod is really asking. I think it it time for Rod to rephrase his question.

Typically we refer to must in pounds until it is pressed after fermentation and then it is referred to in gallons.

..Doyle

#14 MartyYule

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 09:32 AM

QUOTE (Peter Lynch @ May 23 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gene, sure, but what causes the bulk of the volume difference between the must and finished wine? I would say the skins, seeds, and stems (if any). Since these items add volume but are not part of the liquid solution I would say additions that are meant to dissolve in solution should not take these solids into account. This doesn't means these solids will be inert or non-reactive with soluble additives but you could always estimate a bit higher, say 10% (or your best guess), when adding solubles to must. As specifically related to must SO2 additions the goal is to retard unwanted organism growth in the period between crush and active fermentation. Other factors besides volume such as berry conditions, yeast used and volume added, temperature, PH, etc. can influence the amount to add as well. In the end I think additions based on estimated post press volume would generally work better then volume of must. smileytoast.gif

Point well taken. And easier to calculate too!
Thanks Peter
Gene

#15 Peter Lynch

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 09:45 AM

QUOTE (Doyle @ May 23 2008, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is humorous to watch everyone try to figure out what Rod is really asking. I think it it time for Rod to rephrase his question. Typically we refer to must in pounds until it is pressed after fermentation and then it is referred to in gallons.
True, we did get little side tracked here but not by much. I think the original query (if I read it correctly) is basically how much SO2 should be added for a specific pounded of crushed grapes (must). Based on general lbs/gal or lbs/L estimates I think Rod can work backwards to get a general per pound formula. smileytoast.gif
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