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#1 rwintle

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 10:38 AM

I'm reading conflicting information as to whether the dosage for opti-red is per gallon of must or finished wine.

I see that opti-red should be added at a rate of 1 gram per gallon.

Is this per gallon of must?


Thanks!

#2 MartyYule

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 11:29 AM

QUOTE (rwintle @ May 11 2008, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm reading conflicting information as to whether the dosage for opti-red is per gallon of must or finished wine.

I see that opti-red should be added at a rate of 1 gram per gallon.

Is this per gallon of must?
Thanks!

gallons of wine The only formulas that I use that use weight of grapes are amount of yeast and Must dosage of SO2. I don't know any formulas that use gallons of must

#3 NorthernWiner

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 11:55 AM

Rod,

I thought we just went all through this in another thread, but instructions for OptiRed on Lallemand's web site give dosage instructions for either pounds of must OR gallons of wine. The earlier you add it (i.e. at crush), the lower the dosage you need to use.

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"41 Years of Fine Winemaking"
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Wine a little... and you'll feel much better!


#4 rwintle

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:19 PM

I thought I had it straight as well until I started running into information like this from Vinquiry:

"LALLZYME EX is normally used in the
doses of 2-3 g /hL of must or 15-20 g/ton
grapes."

Note that they say must.

Based on this, I have added 1.3 grams of Lallzyme ex to 18 Gallons of Merlot must

18 Gallons = 68.4 liters X .02 grams per liter (2g/hL) = ~1.3 grams

And this from Vinquiry:

"OptiRed (30 g/hL added
to the must)"

I figure I have some time on the Opti-Red as my must is still at 23F. Strange that sites conflict so much where it is a pretty big difference between Must and expected Wine.

What do folks here typically use for a dosage of Opti-Red? Please specify if that is by gallons of must or finished wine when added prior to fermentation smile.gif

Thanks!

--Rod

#5 MartyYule

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 02:31 PM

QUOTE (rwintle @ May 11 2008, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought I had it straight as well until I started running into information like this from Vinquiry:

"LALLZYME EX is normally used in the
doses of 2-3 g /hL of must or 15-20 g/ton
grapes."

Note that they say must.

Based on this, I have added 1.3 grams of Lallzyme ex to 18 Gallons of Merlot must

18 Gallons = 68.4 liters X .02 grams per liter (2g/hL) = ~1.3 grams

And this from Vinquiry:

"OptiRed (30 g/hL added
to the must)"

I figure I have some time on the Opti-Red as my must is still at 23F. Strange that sites conflict so much where it is a pretty big difference between Must and expected Wine.

What do folks here typically use for a dosage of Opti-Red? Please specify if that is by gallons of must or finished wine when added prior to fermentation smile.gif

Thanks!

--Rod

I guess you know how much must in gallons you have in a container by the size of it. But if you look at 20g per ton that would be 1 gram per 100 pounds of grapes or 3 boxes and at 2.5 gallons per box that would be 7.5 gallons of anticipated wine per gram. So just make a decision to use anticipated wine all the time.
Keepin it simple laugh.gif

#6 MartyYule

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 02:36 PM

QUOTE (MartyYule @ May 11 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I guess you know how much must in gallons you have in a container by the size of it. But if you look at 20g per ton that would be 1 gram per 100 pounds of grapes or 3 boxes and at 2.5 gallons per box that would be 7.5 gallons of anticipated wine per gram. So just make a decision to use anticipated wine all the time.
Keepin it simple laugh.gif

Furthermore laugh.gif If you multiply 7.5 gallons of wine times 3 equals 22.5 gallons which is pretty close to 3 grams per hectolitre. Now if you anticipate 2.9 gallons per box then 3 boxes would equal 26.1 gallons BINGO !!!!!!!
Keepin it simple laugh.gif

#7 rwintle

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 03:34 PM

Thanks Marty!

The simplification helped. In addition, I did a quick calc for the Opti-Red (your calc was for lallzyme ex)

Here is what I came up with:

Lallemand site says : Add OptiREDŽ to the must at 227 g/ton (0.5 lb/ton)

Pounds per Ton - 2000
Grams Opti-Red per Ton - 227
Grams in a Pound- 454

Therefore:

Opti Grams per Pound - 0.1135g

So, for my situation, I have 144 LBS of Merlot that will get 16.34 grams of Opti-Red and 180 Lbs of Cab that will get 20.43 grams of Opti-Red

It is nice to have the luxury of knowing the weight based on the cases you buy wink.gif

Thanks for bearing with me on this one wallbash.gif

--Rod

#8 MartyYule

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 03:48 PM

QUOTE (rwintle @ May 11 2008, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is nice to have the luxury of knowing the weight based on the cases you buy wink.gif

Thanks for bearing with me on this one wallbash.gif

--Rod

Watch out for the allinate bouchet it is 42 pounds per box laugh.gif
Bearing with you,not really kinda fun to take those recommended addition rates and put them to the test. Keep in mind that there are a few additions that are very critical for example adding tartaric or So2 or Cuso2 . But many recommended additions are suggested with cost effectiveness in mind for the commercial winemaker. When I started out we did not play in this arena. A little more enzyme never hurt anybody except the pockebook. This is a major consideration to all these additives where $$$$ is the real consideration as apposed to strict chemistry. We are lucky we can play in the same game. just keep it simple

#9 Jrocco

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 05:23 PM

From Presque Isle Wine (PIWine.com) they give the dosage for Optired as "Use about 0.25 gram per gallon when used early and from 0.75 to 10 gram per gallon when added later." This is taken from the product description.
Aging in American Oak barrel: 50 gal Zinfandel

Just completed Primary Fermentation: 8.5 gal Petite Syrah, 3 gal WE Chocolate Raspberry Port.

Undergoing MLF: 22 gal Carbernet Sauvignon, 6 gal Cabernet Franc, 14 gal Merlot, 6 gal Malbec, 4 gal Syrah.

Awards:
2006 Riesling (Gold AWS 2008), 2005 Late Harvest Sauvignon Blanc (Bronze AWS 2008), 2006 Sauvignon Blanc (Bronze AWS 2007), 2006 Chardonnay (Bronze AWS 2007), 2005 Bodeaux Style Blend (Bronze WineMaker Mag 2007 & 2008)

#10 rwintle

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE (MartyYule @ May 11 2008, 06:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Watch out for the allinate bouchet it is 42 pounds per box laugh.gif
Bearing with you,not really kinda fun to take those recommended addition rates and put them to the test. Keep in mind that there are a few additions that are very critical for example adding tartaric or So2 or Cuso2 . But many recommended additions are suggested with cost effectiveness in mind for the commercial winemaker. When I started out we did not play in this arena. A little more enzyme never hurt anybody except the pockebook. This is a major consideration to all these additives where $$$$ is the real consideration as apposed to strict chemistry. We are lucky we can play in the same game. just keep it simple


Gene,

You have a secret source for the Allinate bouchet? ph34r.gif

--Rod

#11 MartyYule

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 06:24 PM

QUOTE (rwintle @ May 11 2008, 06:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gene,

You have a secret source for the Allinate bouchet? ph34r.gif

--Rod

NAw you best bet is Frank and Co. but it is 42 pounds per case.

Rocco
That is my middle name. At fermentation , We used the optired or the booster rouge and we had quite a time trying to figure which one to use with each must. It is not that a clear a decision but the best part is if you pick the wrong one your wine will still be better had you not choose either. So we leave it at that. Now we also used Opti red to reduce the H2S problem in the infamous Malbec on two occasions. The jury is still out on that as well, 30 gr per hLr was the dose all times.
Gene

#12 Jrocco

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:56 PM

As a follow up to my post on the Optired dosage from PIWines.com. I called to check the status of an order and asked if the dosage listed on the web site catalogue for Optired is correct at 0.75g to 10g. I was told the 10g was a misprint and should be 1g so the range if adding post fermentation is 0.75g - 1g. I guess the dosage really depends on the manufacturer. I am going to wait to see what the directions on the bottle say. I have not used Optired in the past so I am real curious to the effect it will have on my wine.
Aging in American Oak barrel: 50 gal Zinfandel

Just completed Primary Fermentation: 8.5 gal Petite Syrah, 3 gal WE Chocolate Raspberry Port.

Undergoing MLF: 22 gal Carbernet Sauvignon, 6 gal Cabernet Franc, 14 gal Merlot, 6 gal Malbec, 4 gal Syrah.

Awards:
2006 Riesling (Gold AWS 2008), 2005 Late Harvest Sauvignon Blanc (Bronze AWS 2008), 2006 Sauvignon Blanc (Bronze AWS 2007), 2006 Chardonnay (Bronze AWS 2007), 2005 Bodeaux Style Blend (Bronze WineMaker Mag 2007 & 2008)

#13 Pat H.

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 06:39 PM

QUOTE (rwintle @ May 11 2008, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gene,

You have a secret source for the Allinate bouchet? ph34r.gif

--Rod
Are we speaking of Alicante Bouschet?




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