Jump to content


Photo

Boom Sprayer


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Rob Jeffs

Rob Jeffs

    Veteran Wine Maker

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 305 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rogue Valley,Southern Or.
  • Interests:Grape growing, Wine making, Growing Hops, Making Beer, Playing Bagpipes, competing with Jefferson Pipe Band.

Posted 29 April 2008 - 05:39 PM

Hello All,
I just picked up an old boom sprayer and had some questions on setting this up for spraying grapes. It is now set up as a field srayer. It has a PTO driven pump. My rows are 8' apart and the srayer with the arms up is at 7'. A bit to wide I think.
#1 How far from the vines shoud the spray nozzles be?
#2 What size nozzles should I use?
#3 How far apart should the nozzles be on the uprights?
#4 Should this have a pressure regulator and if so what PSI should it be set at? There is some sort of control valve on the hoses but no gauge.

I plan on using this for stylet oil application. I will use my back pack srayer until the canopy is up to the top wire. Or this set up also has some differant hand held wands that could be used from the tractor. Trying to save my already sore back.
Any input would be greatly apreciated. This is all new to me.
Rob

#2 Purple Grin Winery

Purple Grin Winery

    Fool on the Hill

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Escondido, CA
  • Interests:Anything challenging...building, growing, analyzing, staying out of the cellar....half acre Syrah

Posted 29 April 2008 - 09:06 PM

Very cool, Rob.

I'd say give it your best guess and run with plain water to see how it covers. Every setup is so different.

The idea is full coverage of your foliage, top to bottom. You'll need to adjust to your partners, the vines, as they mature thru the year. Wet canes and leaves. Blow thru a half row, get out and do some thinking and adjusting.
http://www.purplegrinwinery.com

"Probably best to invite a bunch of friends over and drink it young" - moundtop

#3 gregorio

gregorio

    Wino In Training

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13344 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Gatos, CA

Posted 29 April 2008 - 09:12 PM

QUOTE (Purple Grin Winery @ Apr 29 2008, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Very cool, Rob.

I'd say give it your best guess and run with plain water to see how it covers. Every setup is so different.

The idea is full coverage of your foliage, top to bottom. You'll need to adjust to your partners, the vines, as they mature thru the year. Wet canes and leaves. Blow thru a half row, get out and do some thinking and adjusting.


I'm doing the same thing right now. All trial and error.
Perrucci Family Wines by Kennedy Hill Vineyards. Contact us regarding our monthly cork group buys.

#4 toomuchwine

toomuchwine

    In The Tank

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1007 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seneca Lake, NY zone 5a
  • Interests:Hiking, German Shorthairs, travel, food,

Posted 30 April 2008 - 03:42 AM

QUOTE (gregorio @ Apr 29 2008, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm doing the same thing right now. All trial and error.


You might find 7' wide boom on 8' row spacing a little close for comfort. A lot of ground sprayers use fan nozzles, which will work fine, but could be upgraded to mist nozzles. A pressure guage is easy to plumb in and are nice for consistancy. Take a picture of what you have for pressure regulation when you go in to the spray store for the regulator. If you don't have a spray store, all this stuff can be found at a good hardware store.The nozzles should be spaced to cover the conopy. You may be happier in the beginning using the hand held attachment.
Don Kilcoyne
Catharine Valley Winery
Seneca Lake
Finger Lakes, NY

Every great bottle of wine starts with a person in a vineyard.

#5 knotsorich

knotsorich

    Look Out Ernest & Julio

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1987 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morrisonville, NY - Champlain Valley
  • Interests:Growing grapes and making wine.

Posted 30 April 2008 - 04:02 AM

I would say that 7 foot wide in 8 foot spacing is definitely too close. My rows are 9 foot wide and my homemade boom is 5 feet side. There is a certain amount of growth outward, even in VSP so you likey lose a foot of spacing, in my case making 8 foot apart. This leaves only one and a half feet on each side. With an 80 degree fan nozzle, they should be about 16-21 inches from the target for good coverage. I made my uprights 4 feet tall and with the lift of the 3 point arms, I cover from over 7-8 feet down to the fruiting wire, and drift settles down to cover the whole vine. I added 2 extra nozzles per side so the spacing is about 11-12 inches apart. You could go to five foot high and it would make about 14 inches apart. You want to select a nozzle that gives no larger than medium droplets, since the course will bounce off the leaves. I use TeeJet 8003VS and at 2.5 mph and 40 psi use about 50 gpa. Studies in Europe have found that best penetration is obtained at about 60 psi. Just be sure that you spray in calm conditions. I begin the season at 40 psi since the canopy isn't filled in at all.

My boom I spent about 40 dollars on tube steel and had welded together. I used 1 and 1/4 inch tube to make a big rectangle.

http://www.winepress...a...ost&id=7354

#6 oldjenx

oldjenx

    Gone

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1461 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 April 2008 - 05:37 AM

The control valve that you see is probably a pressure regulator. If there is a hose going from it back to the tank, then it is confirmed. You really need a gage after the regulator. Otherwise, you be guessing every time you go out to spray.

I came to the conclusion that a full cone type nozzle is needed for Stylet Oil. Those deliver a lot more liquid than the fan type that is often used on field sprayers. Of course, if your vineyard is small and you don't mind going very slow, it doesn't matter.

#7 Rob Jeffs

Rob Jeffs

    Veteran Wine Maker

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 305 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rogue Valley,Southern Or.
  • Interests:Grape growing, Wine making, Growing Hops, Making Beer, Playing Bagpipes, competing with Jefferson Pipe Band.

Posted 30 April 2008 - 05:44 AM

QUOTE (knotsorich @ Apr 30 2008, 03:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would say that 7 foot wide in 8 foot spacing is definitely too close. My rows are 9 foot wide and my homemade boom is 5 feet side. There is a certain amount of growth outward, even in VSP so you likey lose a foot of spacing, in my case making 8 foot apart. This leaves only one and a half feet on each side. With an 80 degree fan nozzle, they should be about 16-21 inches from the target for good coverage. I made my uprights 4 feet tall and with the lift of the 3 point arms, I cover from over 7-8 feet down to the fruiting wire, and drift settles down to cover the whole vine. I added 2 extra nozzles per side so the spacing is about 11-12 inches apart. You could go to five foot high and it would make about 14 inches apart. You want to select a nozzle that gives no larger than medium droplets, since the course will bounce off the leaves. I use TeeJet 8003VS and at 2.5 mph and 40 psi use about 50 gpa. Studies in Europe have found that best penetration is obtained at about 60 psi. Just be sure that you spray in calm conditions. I begin the season at 40 psi since the canopy isn't filled in at all.

My boom I spent about 40 dollars on tube steel and had welded together. I used 1 and 1/4 inch tube to make a big rectangle.

http://www.winepress...a...ost&id=7354

That set up looks great Knotsorich. Are you using a PTO driven pump or an electric? Does there have to be a certain number of nozzles so the pressure doesn't blow the set up apart? I did that with irragation pipe once, not enogh sprinklers on the line, blew an end pipe apart.
I plan on working on this this weekend. Bud break is days away depending on the weather. No PM this year I hope.
Rob

#8 Pat H.

Pat H.

    Look Out Ernest & Julio

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2142 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Travelers Rest, Northwestern South Carolina, el. 1250 ft.

Posted 30 April 2008 - 05:59 AM

QUOTE (Rob Jeffs @ Apr 30 2008, 08:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That set up looks great Knotsorich. Are you using a PTO driven pump or an electric? Does there have to be a certain number of nozzles so the pressure doesn't blow the set up apart? I did that with irragation pipe once, not enogh sprinklers on the line, blew an end pipe apart.
I plan on working on this this weekend. Bud break is days away depending on the weather. No PM this year I hope.
Rob
As Knotsorich points out, you have an issue with the 8 foot row spacing. I have the same issue. My one and only tractor is six feet wide across the rear R4 tires and I feel like the slightest mistake will have me hitting a wire, post, or vine. I think I'd look into methods of narrowing the boom somehow. My target is for everything I need to pull or drive down the row space to be no more than 5 feet wide, preferably less.

#9 knotsorich

knotsorich

    Look Out Ernest & Julio

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1987 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morrisonville, NY - Champlain Valley
  • Interests:Growing grapes and making wine.

Posted 30 April 2008 - 07:17 AM

QUOTE (Rob Jeffs @ Apr 30 2008, 08:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That set up looks great Knotsorich. Are you using a PTO driven pump or an electric? Does there have to be a certain number of nozzles so the pressure doesn't blow the set up apart? I did that with irragation pipe once, not enogh sprinklers on the line, blew an end pipe apart.
I plan on working on this this weekend. Bud break is days away depending on the weather. No PM this year I hope.
Rob


I had this set up last year with a spot sprayer with electric pump and 3 nozzles each side. Coverage was OK, but I didn't have a bypass agitator or build past 30 lbs pressure. I converted it this spring to the larger tank and a pto 8 roller pump. It uses a pressure regulating bypass valve(about 30 dollars) and a guage goes on that. I do have the control valve so I can spray either or both sides. Set your pressure with the regulator and it doesn't matter if you use either or both sides, the pressure stays where you set it. When I first started it up, it was set to past 100 psi and I thought the pump wasn't putting out until I saw the mist coming out the nozzles. I have sprayed a couple times with it and it has been a dream to use so far. I only sprayed every other row so far since it does both sides of the tractor at once. As the canopy fills in I like to spray every row, so that both sides of the canopy are sprayed. With the 60 psi prssure, it will penetrate any canopy you want to have. If it won't penetrate it, then the canopy is too dense and should be thinned.

I have since revised how I would put the boom together if building again. It would be adjustable in and out with just a few extra small pieces of steel tubing, and a few nuts and bolts to act as setscrews. I might also make the uprights 5 feet tall to allow for taller canopies, but then I am well under 6 foot(French Heritage), so I don't want a 9 foot high canopy anyways.

Here is a quick and dirty plan for the adjustable boom concept. Adjust to fit your needs.

Attached Files



#10 nwpinot

nwpinot

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 574 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:eola hills oregon
  • Interests:Hobby farm, horses, construction, racing, guns, music, travel.

Posted 30 April 2008 - 11:09 AM

I'm currently learning how to do this in my ag class... so I'm writing this down more for my review... (not saying that I know anything yet!)

The distance/angle and pressure are dictated by your nozzel selection and are listed in a nozzel chart, available at most ag supply stores. Basically, you just need to figure out how many gallons/acre you want to spray, plug it into a formula and then select your nozzel from the chart.

The pressure should be in the 60-150# range. Less pressure=poorer coverage due to bigger droplets, but gives you less drift. High pressure gives you smaller droplets/better coverage; however more drift.

The formula is:(Tractor speed in ft/Min) x (number of gallons/acre) x (row spacing) / 43560 ft2/ac = gal/min of the sprayer.

So if you are going 3mph, you want to spray 50 gals per acre and you have 8ft row spacing, then your spray nozzel size would be: (264 ft/min) x (50 gal/acre) x (8 ft) / 43560 ft2/acre = 2.24 gal/min.

You choose the number of nozzels per row based upon how tall your canopy is. Somewhere between 2 (early in the season) and 4 (late in the season).

If you are using 4 nozzels for each row, then: (2.24 gal/min) / 4 = .60 gal/min nozzel. Then go to a reference chart and get a hold of the proper nozzel that is rated at .60 gal/min at your selected psi and spray distance.

Whew! I think I'm gonna pass my sprayer calibration test this week after all.

But, by the sound of the folks with the previous posts... the folks that have been around awhile... that there's a bit of trial and error invlolved. It sounds like they just adjust the apparatus to get complete coverage... and for-go much of the academic exercises. I've got so much to learn yet!

#11 Rob Jeffs

Rob Jeffs

    Veteran Wine Maker

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 305 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rogue Valley,Southern Or.
  • Interests:Grape growing, Wine making, Growing Hops, Making Beer, Playing Bagpipes, competing with Jefferson Pipe Band.

Posted 30 April 2008 - 12:34 PM

QUOTE (knotsorich @ Apr 30 2008, 06:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have since revised how I would put the boom together if building again. It would be adjustable in and out with just a few extra small pieces of steel tubing, and a few nuts and bolts to act as setscrews. I might also make the uprights 5 feet tall to allow for taller canopies, but then I am well under 6 foot(French Heritage), so I don't want a 9 foot high canopy anyways.

Here is a quick and dirty plan for the adjustable boom concept. Adjust to fit your needs.

That is a good revision. I just might rebuild the boom assembly to something adjustable like that. It would be easy to make and I have a fab shop at work to use.
thanks for the design, Rob

#12 knotsorich

knotsorich

    Look Out Ernest & Julio

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1987 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morrisonville, NY - Champlain Valley
  • Interests:Growing grapes and making wine.

Posted 30 April 2008 - 01:04 PM

QUOTE (nwpinot @ Apr 30 2008, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The distance/angle and pressure are dictated by your nozzel selection and are listed in a nozzel chart, available at most ag supply stores. Basically, you just need to figure out how many gallons/acre you want to spray, plug it into a formula and then select your nozzel from the chart.

The pressure should be in the 60-150# range. Less pressure=poorer coverage due to bigger droplets, but gives you less drift. High pressure gives you smaller droplets/better coverage; however more drift.


You are doing pretty well with the concepts. One thing you might want to reconsider is the pressure you use. The low pressure should be 30-40 psi and the upper limit really shouln't go much above 60-70 psi. You are applying spray materials, not paint. Normal nozzles aren't meant to spray that high of a range. 60 psi isn't low, it is towards the upper limits of practicality. I got my number of nozzles and spray pressure recommendations from Dr. Andrew Landers of Cornell University where he is their expert on everything to do with spray application.

#13 homesteadgrapes

homesteadgrapes

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 47 posts

Posted 30 April 2008 - 04:35 PM

Rob, You would be wise to treat the entire system with a chemical to neutralize any old and possible chemicles that may have been run through that old sprayer and once you've done that do a test on a very small area of grapes to make sure you aren't putting some old chemical residue on your vines. Just a word of caution smileytoast.gif
Dan

#14 Al F

Al F

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 583 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 April 2008 - 04:47 PM

question

is this an enclosed cab situation? or open tractor cab?

#15 oldjenx

oldjenx

    Gone

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1461 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 May 2008 - 05:40 AM

QUOTE (nwpinot @ Apr 30 2008, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm currently learning how to do this in my ag class... so I'm writing this down more for my review... (not saying that I know anything yet!)

The distance/angle and pressure are dictated by your nozzel selection and are listed in a nozzel chart, available at most ag supply stores. Basically, you just need to figure out how many gallons/acre you want to spray, plug it into a formula and then select your nozzel from the chart.

The pressure should be in the 60-150# range. Less pressure=poorer coverage due to bigger droplets, but gives you less drift. High pressure gives you smaller droplets/better coverage; however more drift.

The formula is:(Tractor speed in ft/Min) x (number of gallons/acre) x (row spacing) / 43560 ft2/ac = gal/min of the sprayer.

So if you are going 3mph, you want to spray 50 gals per acre and you have 8ft row spacing, then your spray nozzel size would be: (264 ft/min) x (50 gal/acre) x (8 ft) / 43560 ft2/acre = 2.24 gal/min.

You choose the number of nozzels per row based upon how tall your canopy is. Somewhere between 2 (early in the season) and 4 (late in the season).

If you are using 4 nozzels for each row, then: (2.24 gal/min) / 4 = .60 gal/min nozzel. Then go to a reference chart and get a hold of the proper nozzel that is rated at .60 gal/min at your selected psi and spray distance.

Whew! I think I'm gonna pass my sprayer calibration test this week after all.

But, by the sound of the folks with the previous posts... the folks that have been around awhile... that there's a bit of trial and error invlolved. It sounds like they just adjust the apparatus to get complete coverage... and for-go much of the academic exercises. I've got so much to learn yet!

This is a good presentation of the arithmatic involved. You can also get the nozzle chart at the Tee Jet web site.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users