12 replies to this topic

[wireless]

Hello Everyone,

I have a few batches of Reds that I need to adjust the PH & Acid Levels on. (Reference 23794) for all the details.

Tonight I would like to add ½ Gram per Liter to my Cad B. This should be all of 2 tsp of Tartaric Acid. I will rack the 5 gal carboy and the topping off bottle into a food grad plastic 6 gal bucket, and then add the Tartaric Acid.

How long should I wait (if at all) to taste test and check PH?

Thanks
Mike

[toomuchwine]

I may be wrong, but it always works pretty immediately for me. As soon as its dissolved and mixed thoughout in the wine I start testing the pH to make sure I did what was intended. In batches without bench trials I'd mix half first to see what get first. After testing the pH you can adjust the rest of the way if you still want. Try to keep in mind you will get some tartaric back after CS.

[gregorio]

I think the PH results are very immediate but the taste can take several days. I've come back to the bench tests a week later and found that I liked them better than I did on the first day.

[touchtoomuch]

I may be wrong, but it always works pretty immediately for me. As soon as its dissolved and mixed thoughout in the wine I start testing the pH to make sure I did what was intended. In batches without bench trials I'd mix half first to see what get first. After testing the pH you can adjust the rest of the way if you still want. Try to keep in mind you will get some tartaric back after CS.

This maybe a newbie question, but what do you mean that one will get some tartaric back after CS (Cold Stabilization)????

[mokadir]

I agree that the change in TA and pH should not take long after the addition with one caveat - I would add it in a solution, rather than in powder form. The first time I did additions, I did it dry and eventually overshot because the addition didn't completely solubilize initially and therefore the pH and TA did not initially reflect the addition.

Nothing that a little worry, time, cold stabilization and KHCO3 couldn't fix though.

[toomuchwine]

When you cold stabilize (CS) you are removing tartaric acid in the form of Potassium Bitartrate. It seems silly to add tartrates only to remove them later, but it has more to do with pH. If you get your pH down close to 3.55 before CS you'll have a more wine more resistant to bacterial spoilage. If your wine is above pH 3.55 when you CS, your wine pH will go up, resulting in a wine less resistant to spoilage bacteria and requireing more sulfites to increase resistance. If your pH is below 3.55 when you CS, your wines pH will go down or stay the same, allowing you to use less sulfites to keep things from happening to your wine.

[wireless]

When you cold stabilize (CS) you are removing tartaric acid in the form of Potassium Bitartrate. It seems silly to add tartrates only to remove them later, but it has more to do with pH. If you get your pH down close to 3.55 before CS you'll have a more wine more resistant to bacterial spoilage. If your wine is above pH 3.55 when you CS, your wine pH will go up, resulting in a wine less resistant to spoilage bacteria and requireing more sulfites to increase resistance. If your pH is below 3.55 when you CS, your wines pH will go down or stay the same, allowing you to use less sulfites to keep things from happening to your wine.

Well, this is going to be an interesting report.

So last night I racked all my Cab B (5.5 gal.) into a six gallon bucket, I checked the PH before I started to add Tartaric Acid and it was at 4.22. I added 2 tsp. of the Tartaric Acid. Stirred, and stirred, then stirred some more. Checked the PH again and it only moved to 4.19, but seemed to taste better, so I added 2 more teaspoons, and stirred it in really good again. Tasted it again, and it tasted it pretty good. Checked the PH again and it’s only moved to 4.16. So I figured that maybe I should let it sit overnight and check it in the afternoon.

Well I went downstairs, opened the bucket and stirred it up real good again. Checked the PH and it didn’t move overnight, still at 4.16. Tasted it, and it seems very good so far. I would like to get the PH down around 3.60 – 3.65 as suggested all along. Then Cold Stabilize it.

What would be the best way to proceed?

Current SG .990, TA 0.55% before adding the Tartaric Acid.

Thanks in advance.
Mike

[kyjake]

Make sure that ph meter is working correctly.
Jake

[toomuchwine]

Luckily for me, I've never had a pH that high. My gewurztraminer scared me this year with a pH of 4.0. If I had a wine like that I would add tartrates till it tasted right, CS, then use it for blending with a low pH wine.....or just drink it quickly after bottling. This sounds like something Greg schold answer.

[gregorio]

Well, this is going to be an interesting report.

So last night I racked all my Cab B (5.5 gal.) into a six gallon bucket, I checked the PH before I started to add Tartaric Acid and it was at 4.22. I added 2 tsp. of the Tartaric Acid. Stirred, and stirred, then stirred some more. Checked the PH again and it only moved to 4.19, but seemed to taste better, so I added 2 more teaspoons, and stirred it in really good again. Tasted it again, and it tasted it pretty good. Checked the PH again and it’s only moved to 4.16. So I figured that maybe I should let it sit overnight and check it in the afternoon.

Well I went downstairs, opened the bucket and stirred it up real good again. Checked the PH and it didn’t move overnight, still at 4.16. Tasted it, and it seems very good so far. I would like to get the PH down around 3.60 – 3.65 as suggested all along. Then Cold Stabilize it.

What would be the best way to proceed?

Current SG .990, TA 0.55% before adding the Tartaric Acid.

Thanks in advance.
Mike

This is a tough one. Unless you get PH down to 3.6, cold stab will cause PH to rise even farther. Personally, I do not see a need to CS a red. Are you 100% certain the PH meter is accurate?

How much total acid did you add? You should be able to calculate it in g/L or % if you know how to convert teaspoons to grams. Jack Keller's site might have some conversion info.

Regardless, TA is irrelevent. How does it taste? Wherever it is, (even if it has .9g/L, 4.0PH) if it starts to taste like crap as you add more acid, STOP! Forget the numbers! Bottle it and drink it early.

[larrysherer]

Instead of adding Tartaric to the entire batch, I've found it easier and safer to pull out a Liter of the wine and then add the estimated grams/L of Tartaric to that and then test. Once you find the correct amount of acid needed in the Liter, then you know how many grams/L to add to the balance of your batch. I can't tell you how many batches of wine I screwed up by adding the acid into the entire batch and then testing...

[wireless]

This is a tough one. Unless you get PH down to 3.6, cold stab will cause PH to rise even farther. Personally, I do not see a need to CS a red. Are you 100% certain the PH meter is accurate?

How much total acid did you add? You should be able to calculate it in g/L or % if you know how to convert teaspoons to grams. Jack Keller's site might have some conversion info.

Regardless, TA is irrelevent. How does it taste? Wherever it is, (even if it has .9g/L, 4.0PH) if it starts to taste like crap as you add more acid, STOP! Forget the numbers! Bottle it and drink it early.

Hello everyone,

I thought I should provide everyone with an update as to my progress.

After reading all the comments and thoughts to my post, I went back and rechecked my work. First thing I did was to take my brand new Hanna “Checker” PH meter and recheck the calibration. What ya know it was off by 0.20. I recalibrated it and rechecked the Cab B. and after adding 5 tsp of Tartaric Acid (25 grams according to Jack Keller’s recipe PDF posted here.) I’m at a PH of 4.12

As far as taste. What a difference adding the Tartaric Acid made. Now it has a very smooth finish. I compared it to my other batch of Cab, Cad A that was started at the same time and they are much different. I’m going to be adding Tartaric to that one also as it’s sitting at a PH of 4.12.

The question is with my Cab B batch. Should I try to continue to add Tartaric to it to bring down the PH more while tasting along the way not to make it to tart?

How many grams of Tartaric are normal, and reasonable for 5.5 Gals of a Lodi Cab?

How often does a new PH meter need to be calibrated? Or should I suspect this new meter to be defective?

Thanks
Mike

[smokinjoe359]

Hello everyone,

I thought I should provide everyone with an update as to my progress.

After reading all the comments and thoughts to my post, I went back and rechecked my work. First thing I did was to take my brand new Hanna “Checker” PH meter and recheck the calibration. What ya know it was off by 0.20. I recalibrated it and rechecked the Cab B. and after adding 5 tsp of Tartaric Acid (25 grams according to Jack Keller’s recipe PDF posted here.) I’m at a PH of 4.12

As far as taste. What a difference adding the Tartaric Acid made. Now it has a very smooth finish. I compared it to my other batch of Cab, Cad A that was started at the same time and they are much different. I’m going to be adding Tartaric to that one also as it’s sitting at a PH of 4.12.

The question is with my Cab B batch. Should I try to continue to add Tartaric to it to bring down the PH more while tasting along the way not to make it to tart?

How many grams of Tartaric are normal, and reasonable for 5.5 Gals of a Lodi Cab?

How often does a new PH meter need to be calibrated? Or should I suspect this new meter to be defective?

Thanks
Mike

You also need to be sure your sample that you are testing is degassed before testing,because it could give you false readings.Recheck your meter in your 4.01 or7.01 solution ,if it is off then recalibrate. + or - .05 or.1 is ok depending on the meter.
Joe