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#1 Wodetone

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 02:14 PM

I am interested in this training method, but can not find alot of information about it. I have got sunlight into wine which explains the scott henry training, but this was written before they had thought out smart dyson.

Does anyone use this?? how do you go about creating spurs facing up and down on the same cordon? what is the maintenence on this? how easy is it to manage and how do you manage it? is there any publication thats expalins it in more depth?

many thanks in advance.

#2 tgw_slo

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 08:03 PM

Hello,

I am presently borrowing a book called Practical Aspects of Grapevine Trellising". This book actually
explains that the Smart-Dyson system is a modification of the Scott-Henry system.

This book also explains the advantages and disadvantages to each system. From what I can see, it
looks like the Smart-Dyson system uses much more trellis wire than the Scott Henry system.
Especially for the upward shoots. In spite of this, the book indicates that the Smart-Dyson system
is less expensive.

The advantages it indicates for the Smart Dyson system is

1. Lower cost than Scott Henry
2. mechanical pre-pruning and harvesting is possible
3 The difference in fruit maturity is better than that of the Scott Henry system

Disadvantages
1. Undetermined whether this system is advantageous over a long period.
2. Shoot positioning is labor intensive and difficult. Especially with downward shoots.

Again, this confuses me because there's three times as many wires for the upward shoots
as there are for downward shoots.

It should be noted that the advantages of the Smart-Dyson vs. Scott Henry make no
mention of improved crop yield or that one system provides better quality crop than
the other.

If you can get this book from your local library (as I did) you may want to look
through it.

I'm not sure this helps, but hopefully you'll have other people respond to your
post who can give you better answers than mine.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

tgw_slo






QUOTE (Wodetone @ Jan 19 2008, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am interested in this training method, but can not find alot of information about it. I have got sunlight into wine which explains the scott henry training, but this was written before they had thought out smart dyson.

Does anyone use this?? how do you go about creating spurs facing up and down on the same cordon? what is the maintenence on this? how easy is it to manage and how do you manage it? is there any publication thats expalins it in more depth?

many thanks in advance.

Tory W.
Morro Glenn Vineyard
privately owned

#3 tgw_slo

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 08:06 PM

QUOTE (Wodetone @ Jan 19 2008, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am interested in this training method, but can not find alot of information about it. I have got sunlight into wine which explains the scott henry training, but this was written before they had thought out smart dyson.

Does anyone use this?? how do you go about creating spurs facing up and down on the same cordon? what is the maintenence on this? how easy is it to manage and how do you manage it? is there any publication thats expalins it in more depth?

many thanks in advance.


Sorry, I forgot about your other ?

Actually, the canes will develop upward and downward pointing shoots. Its just a matter of pruning
alternate shoots so they alternate one up, one down. One up, one down.

If you can obtain the Summer DVD from www.vineguyproductions.com, this explains this technique.


tgw_slo
Tory W.
Morro Glenn Vineyard
privately owned

#4 Bill Frazier

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 08:25 PM

"I am interested in this training method, but can not find alot of information about it. I have got sunlight into wine which explains the scott henry training, but this was written before they had thought out smart dyson."

You might want to check out R.H. Phillips Winery northwest of Sacramento. There's an article in the latest American Fruit Grower about this winery and Smart-Dyson. They are converting Smart-Dyson to a modified southern sprawl. The article says there is quite a cost savings and improved fruit and wine. I know nothing about this vineyard...just noticed the article.
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be mastered" ~ Lord Robertson

#5 smd

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 07:58 AM

Wodetone, I've studied using this as well. My plan is to use VSP with the option of going to smart dyson to help with vigor if needed.

Here's some of what I have learned. If you look at the shoot anatomy note that the leaves and buds alternate sides. The idea is to take advantage of that alternating and force some to grow down to help increase canopy area and allow for more fruit. So instead of laying down a shoot with the buds side to side, the shoot is laid down with half of the buds pointed up and half pointed down for node establishment. One option for helping with vigor is to allow the downward shoots but to remove the fruit. The usual problem encountered is that most vinifera wants to grow upward thus even when the nodes of the cordon are established downward the vine will still attempt to grow in an upward direction. The catch wires then become very important to keep those shoots from becoming hopelessly entangled in the upward growth. Timing for brushing down the shoots is critical as when the shoots are too young they may break and when they grow too much they will turn upward and tendrils will entangle them with with upward growth.

Many here use moveable catch wires with success. I am trying permanent catch wires and feeding the shoots through the middle then placing wire clips on the wires to keep them from coming back out.
smd
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#6 oldjenx

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 10:05 AM

QUOTE (Bill Frazier @ Jan 19 2008, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They are converting Smart-Dyson to a modified southern sprawl. The article says there is quite a cost savings and improved fruit and wine. I know nothing about this vineyard...just noticed the article.

Bill, you piqued my curiosity. What is a southern sprawl, modified and not if there is such a thing.

#7 Bill Frazier

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 10:00 PM

"What is a southern sprawl, modified and not if there is such a thing."

oldjenx - Modified southern sprawl looks like a cross between VSP and Minimal Pruning tecnique (shown on page 61 of "Sunlight Into Wine." The article in American Fruit Grower was about the R.H. Phillips Winery near Sacramento. The area can get quite hot...around 100F like it does in the KC area. They had a problem with fruit being fully exposed on the Smart-Dyson trellis and this led to bleached anthocyanins and harsh tannins. For the modified southern sprawl conversion they let fuiting canes grow longer and flop over to partially shade the fruit. Looks like they did shoot position and trim the shoots to some degree since the vineyard has the tailored look of a VSP vineyard but the fruit was shaded. I believe the difference between modified and full southern sprawl is the partial pruning and shoot positioning they practice. Pictures of "Minimal Pruning" in Sunlight Into Wine look like a jungle and I don't know how anyone could grow good grapes using that system. The article said berries harvested from the modified southern sprawl vines were the smallest, had the highest phenols and highest brix. This sounds exactly opposite from all I've read...grapes exposed to full sun make the best wine...but in their case partial shade helped.

I sort of practice this in my vineyard here in Kansas. I started the vineyard in 1996 with a GDC trellis but converted to a two wire system with the top wire at 6 feet. I spur prune and let the shoots flop over and droop down. Grape clusters are shaded receiving dappled sunlight. I shoot thin to make sure sun does get thru. the canopy. If I let clusters get full sun they sun burn with the heat and light I get...especially Noiret. I contend with deer in the vineyard so growing grapes at 6 feet keeps them away from the fruit.
Bill Frazier

"My favorite shots are the practice swing
and the conceded putt. The rest can never
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