16 replies to this topic

[maseratiman]

Hello,

I am new to this forum and already view it as a valuable source of information. My question is this; I reside in Massachusetts and have made wine for years, really as a hobby. If I would like to make some of my best wines commercially available, where do I start? What permits are required? Any suggestions?


If this question is better answered in previous posts, I would appreciate assistance in finding them!

Thank you,

-Marc

[Jay-CastleRock]

Hello,

I am new to this forum and already view it as a valuable source of information. My question is this; I reside in Massachusetts and have made wine for years, really as a hobby. If I would like to make some of my best wines commercially available, where do I start? What permits are required? Any suggestions?
If this question is better answered in previous posts, I would appreciate assistance in finding them!

Thank you,

-Marc

You'll need to start here www.ttb.gov and at the state level as well. Here in Colorado you have to have your Federal Permit first and then the state will accept your application. Then there is local county, town, and city permits. Don't forget about zoning.

You'll need a bond in relation to the size of your initial production. The minimum bond is for 1,000 and can be secured through your insurance agent. Its about 100.00 for the year. The state here then runs a background check and a fingerprint card through the system.

Don't forget to get approved with the FDA either. That will hold up your federal permit.

[Rob C]

And don't forget that you can't sell any wine made before you have all your permits.

[graywolfer]

I think I will just enjoy my homemade wine, and like I always do,give some to my friends as gifts!!
Like the saying goes,"I am from the Government and I am here to help you"".

[MikeB]

You can also find some more info by browsing this section of the forum:
CLICK HERE

[maseratiman]

You can also find some more info by browsing this section of the forum:
CLICK HERE

Thanks everyone. I agree drinking the very best vintages and maybe selling the rest, but before I even start it looks like I have almost 1 year in conversing with the federal and state governments to aquire the necessary permits before I even will have permission to make a batch qualified for sale. At least it gives me more time to experiment and, of course, drink which was the inital modivating factor for making wine... Thanks again and if I have anyother questions, this forum will be the first to know.

-Marc

[Jack Keller]

...it looks like I have almost 1 year in conversing with the federal and state governments to aquire the necessary permits before I even will have permission to make a batch qualified for sale.

Marc, you will need a winery to start with, as you cannot make commercial wine in the home. I have two friends who have gone commercial. Both of them had a winery before they filed for a permit and in both cases it took over two years to get the federal permit and another year for state and county permits. I don't know which colleges in Massachusetts offer courses in enology and winery operations, but I would not encourage anyone to think about commercializing until they had taken a full two-year program of study. You have no idea what you are facing, and that means certain failure.

It helps to remember the old saying, "The only way to walk away from a winery with a small fortune is to start with a large fortune," and that saying really only applies to people who know what to expect.

I know my comments are brutally negative, but I don't believe in leading people down a garden path to the slaughterhouse. Take some college courses in enology. You'll soon learn if you want to pursue this commercially. If not, at least you will learn a lot about winemaking and wineries.

[stevec]

Marc, you will need a winery to start with, as you cannot make commercial wine in the home.

Jack,

I don't believe this is entirely true. Jay_Castlerock can attest to this. I also believe that Screaming Eagle is a home-based winery.

Steve

[gregorio]

Jack,

I don't believe this is entirely true. Jay_Castlerock can attest to this. I also believe that Screaming Eagle is a home-based winery.

Steve

Right. It all depends on the local zoning laws. In some places, residential zoning prohibits commercial operations of any kind unless they have little or no impact to the neighborhood. All home based businesses must pass these tests before they are permitted. In my area, there are a few legal wineries operating in secured garages and sheds. Most of the time, they move into something larger and more suitable since economies of scale don't apply to them and thus kill their ability to achieve profiability. Permits, taxes, licenses and fees alone amount to several thousand per year for us. No way to recover that wrking out of my garage!

[Jay-CastleRock]

Marc, you will need a winery to start with, as you cannot make commercial wine in the home.

It all depends on the local zoning. I'm in my basement and didn't have any problems. The TTB agent came out, took some notes, permit showed up two days later. Just do your home work.

"it took over two years to get the federal permit and another year for state and county permits.

TTB, State, and Local liquor officials get really pissed off when people can't follow directions. The federal agent working on mine told me he was working on a 28 month old case. It took 4 months for my permit to be approved from the time it was sent in. Follow every direction on the application to the letter and there won't be any problems.

It helps to remember the old saying, "The only way to walk away from a winery with a small fortune is to start with a large fortune," and that saying really only applies to people who know what to expect.

It's called a business plan. Build one and use it. The folks here in Colorado are very helpful. They want to see more wineries open up. It's a more the merrier situation. All the information and help I received from them was priceless. If you want some help just let me know. I'm more than happy to help

[Jay-CastleRock]

Most of the time, they move into something larger and more suitable since economies of scale don't apply to them and thus kill their ability to achieve profiability. Permits, taxes, licenses and fees alone amount to several thousand per year for us. No way to recover that wrking out of my garage!

I'm looking for commercial space now. The plan was to build inventory and then step out fully stocked and ready to roll. With commercial rates the way they are and the home market where its at it would actually be easier and cheaper for me to buy a larger house with a full basement than a commercial space. Keeps the overhead down. It looks like I'll be building and re-zoning if I have to so I can get out of the basement.

[gregorio]

I'm looking for commercial space now. The plan was to build inventory and then step out fully stocked and ready to roll. With commercial rates the way they are and the home market where its at it would actually be easier and cheaper for me to buy a larger house with a full basement than a commercial space. Keeps the overhead down. It looks like I'll be building and re-zoning if I have to so I can get out of the basement.

I would love to have my house and winery surrounded by a vineyard. I can see my morning coffee on the porch overlooking the vines followed by a walk over to the winery for a few hours of "work"!

Trouble is around here property is so damn expensive!

[maseratiman]

Being surrounded by vineyards would be a great way to wake up every morning, that's for sure. To answer a few different questions, I am not interested in starting a huge winery right away (still gathering information) and getting better informed of enology can only help. I don't think any colleges in the area offer such courses; I'll look into it. I still have to look into the laws in Massachusetts to see if I can use my 40X20 barn and garage as the bonded premises (never used for cattle). I live in a 132 year old house with dirt floors in the cellar. Wine will not go anywhere near it except for storage! There is an old bottling plant down the road from me that went out of business so if there is now way to use my home as a winery due to zoning, I might be able to look into either this building or some other in town.

Thanks again,

Marc

[Jack Keller]

It all depends on the local zoning. I'm in my basement and didn't have any problems.

Then it has to be Texas law. I was just told (again--for the third time) last Sunday that you cannot have a bonded area for alcohol in a residence. "One roof for the business, another for the dwelling." I can't believe Texas is the only state that has such a law, but Colorado probably isn't the only state that permits it either.

[Jay-CastleRock]

Then it has to be Texas law. I was just told (again--for the third time) last Sunday that you cannot have a bonded area for alcohol in a residence. "One roof for the business, another for the dwelling." I can't believe Texas is the only state that has such a law, but Colorado probably isn't the only state that permits it either.

There's 3 of us and 2 meaderies that are residence/bonded in Colorado. The Feds don't have the issue. It's the state. When I filed with the feds they wanted to make sure it was OK with the state and county first so they didn't waste their time.